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The most important stories for you to know today
  • Podcast revisits City Hall tape scandal
    a handwritten sign is resting behind a microphone on a lectern in the city council chamber. It reads: Your policy is racist not just your leaked audio.
    Veronica Sance participated in a rally outside City Hall to denounce racism and demand change.

    Topline:

    The new season of the LAist Studios podcast Imperfect Paradise debuts today with Nury & The Secret Tapes, the story of how a secretly recorded conversation, leaked to journalists online, exploded into the largest political scandal in recent Los Angeles history and exposed deep-seated issues over race and politics.

    About Episode 1 — The Scandal: Cereijido takes us behind the scenes of the L.A. City Council tape scandal. She speaks with the people who were most affected by the tapes, including former L.A. City Councilmember Mike Bonin.

    Why you should listen: The tapes exposed problems that have long plagued L.A. politics. A year after the scandal, issues persist over anti-Black racism and colorism within the Latino/Latinx community, Democratic Party divisions, and the struggle to define Latino political power. The four-part podcast includes an exclusive interview with former L.A. City Council president Nury Martinez, who resigned in disgrace after she was heard making racist and derogatory remarks.

    The new season of the LAist Studios podcast Imperfect Paradise debuts Wednesday with Nury & The Secret Tapes, the story of how a secretly recorded conversation, leaked to journalists online, exploded into the largest political scandal in recent Los Angeles history and exposed deep-seated issues over race and politics.

    The four-part podcast includes an exclusive interview with former L.A. City Council president Nury Martinez, who resigned in disgrace after she was heard making racist and derogatory remarks. “I've thought about that particular day, God, a thousand times, if not more,” Martinez told host Antonia Cereijido.

    About Episode 1 — The Scandal

    Cereijido takes us behind the scenes of the L.A. City Council tape scandal. She speaks with the people who were most affected by the tapes, including former L.A. City Councilmember Mike Bonin.

    He recounts how he first heard about the recording in which four prominent Latino leaders use racist and demeaning terms to describe his son, who was then a toddler. “That's kind of when I lost it,” he said. “I was livid that she talked about beating him down.”

    Why you should listen

    The tapes exposed problems that have long plagued L.A. politics. A year after the scandal, issues persist over anti-Black racism and colorism within the Latino/Latinx community, Democratic Party divisions, and the struggle to define Latino political power.

    The scandal was international

    The tapes include Martinez making derogatory comments about Indigenous people from the Mexican state of Oaxaca.  “It shows why we've always known as Indigenous people,” said Odilia Romero, the co-founder and executive director at CIELO, an organization that advocates for Indigenous people's human rights, “that the other Mexicans have always discriminated against us.”

    How do I find the podcast?

    It's now available from LAist Studios. Check it out wherever you get your get podcasts and subscribe to Imperfect Paradise. Or listen to the this episode here:

    Listen 40:45
    We take you behind the scenes of the L.A. City Council tape scandal, a year later.
    We take you behind the scenes of the L.A. City Council tape scandal, a year later.

    Read Cereijido's essay

    Cereijido reflects on her motivation for hosting Nury & The Secret Tapes.

    How To LA covers the making of the podcast

    Our How To LA podcast talked to Cereijido about the making of this season of Imperfect Paradise .

    How To LA logo (graphical text) with LAist Studios logo (graphical text) with 6th street bridge in the background; with red to orange vertical gradient as background color
    Listen 15:56
    Our colleagues on the 'Imperfect Paradise' podcast team, including host Antonia Cereijido, challenged Martinez to account for the racist, hurtful things she said in that conversation. In today's episode 'How To LA,' Antonia talks with Brian about the making of the podcast.
    The Making Of The 'Nury And The Secret Tapes' Podcast
    Our colleagues on the 'Imperfect Paradise' podcast team, including host Antonia Cereijido, challenged Martinez to account for the racist, hurtful things she said in that conversation. In today's episode 'How To LA,' Antonia talks with Brian about the making of the podcast.

  • Batch of emails reveal prominent connections

    Topline:

    Spread throughout the roughly 23,000 documents released by the House Oversight Committee last week, emails and texts show Epstein courted prominent politicos from both sides of the aisle, impressed academics and used his connections to push back on negative stories about his alleged crimes.

    Who did Epstein correspond with?: Epstein's career as a wealthy financier who gave money to universities and other causes put him in many elite circles. Among them is linguist Noam Chomsky, who called Epstein a "highly valued friend." Chomsky recalled how Epstein connected him with former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak — another frequent Epstein correspondent. Also, Kathryn Ruemmler, former White House counsel in the Obama administration and current chief legal officer for Goldman Sachs, messaged with Epstein before and during President Donald Trump's first term.

    Mentions of Trump: President Trump is a frequent subject of emails and text messages in the latest file tranche — well over a thousand different mentions — though mainly the subject of Epstein's near-obsession with his presidency, as the latter positioned himself as a Trump whisperer of sorts to his powerful associates.

    What's next: Within 30 days of Trump signing the Epstein Files Transparency Act, the attorney general is supposed to make "all unclassified records, documents, communications, and investigative materials" available in a searchable and downloadable format.

    New releases from Jeffrey Epstein's estate shine additional light on the array of powerful figures who kept ties to the disgraced financier after his criminal charges came to light.

    Spread throughout the roughly 23,000 documents released by the House Oversight Committee last week, emails and texts show Epstein courted prominent politicos from both sides of the aisle, impressed academics and used his connections to push back on negative stories about his alleged crimes.

    Epstein's career as a wealthy financier who gave money to universities and other causes put him in many elite circles.

    Those circles did not entirely close to him after he pleaded guilty to state charges of solicitation of prostitution and of solicitation of prostitution with a minor under the age of 18 in 2008.

    Reading through the text messages and emails released, the people who consulted with Epstein rarely acknowledged the severity of the crimes that required him to register as a sex offender, though simply corresponding with Epstein does not implicate individuals in his criminal activities, convicted or accused.

    There's an apparent letter of recommendation for Epstein from linguist Noam Chomsky, calling him a "highly valued friend," that recalled how Epstein connected him with former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak — another frequent Epstein correspondent.

    "Jeffrey constantly raises searching questions and puts forth provocative ideas, which have repeatedly led me to rethink crucial issues," the letter reads.

    There's advice Epstein gave to Steve Bannon, Trump's former strategist, about ways to build a far-right political movement overseas.

    "If you are going to play here, you'll have to spend time, [E]urope by remote doesn't work," Epstein wrote in 2018. "Lots and lots of face time and hand holding. Europe can be a wife not a mistress."

    Former Harvard University president and onetime Treasury Secretary Larry Summers is documented numerous times having intimate personal chats with Epstein, including asking for romantic advice and joking about women's intelligence.

    "I yipped about inclusion," wrote Summers in 2017. "I observed that half the IQ [in the] world was possessed by women without mentioning they are more than 51 percent of population...."

    Summers resigned as Harvard's president in 2006 after arguing that women may be innately less capable in math and science.

    In the week since the latest Epstein emails release, he has resigned from the board of OpenAI and abruptly left his teaching role at Harvard, as the university announced a probe of "information concerning individuals at Harvard included in the newly released Jeffrey Epstein documents to evaluate what actions may be warranted."

    Summers isn't the only high-profile Democrat who found themself in varying degrees of Epstein's orbit. Kathryn Ruemmler, former White House counsel in the Obama administration and current chief legal officer for Goldman Sachs, messaged with Epstein before and during Trump's first term.

    "Trump is living proof of the adage that it is better to be lucky than smart," she wrote in August 2015.

    "I regret ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein," Ruemmler told The Wall Street Journal in 2023.

    More than a thousand mentions of Trump

    A protester with white hair, wearing a black baseball cap is pictured from behind. They are holding up a sign that reads," release all the files!"
    A protester holds a sign related to the release of the Jeffrey Epstein case files outside the Capitol in Washington, D.C., on Nov.12. President Trump signed the congressional legislation that directs the Department of Justice to release the files late Wednesday evening.
    (
    Saul Loeb
    /
    AFP via Getty Images
    )

    Trump promised to release the Epstein files on the campaign trail but largely stonewalled the effort this year since he returned to office, frequently calling the push for more transparency around the Epstein case a "hoax" perpetrated by Democrats.

    In a Wednesday Truth Social post announcing the signing of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, Trump said Democrats were using the issue to distract from what he says are victories for his administration.

    "Perhaps the truth about these Democrats, and their associations with Jeffrey Epstein, will soon be revealed, because I HAVE JUST SIGNED THE BILL TO RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES!" he posted.

    The president has the authority to release the files without congressional action.

    Trump is a frequent subject of emails and text messages in the latest file tranche — well over a thousand different mentions — though mainly the subject of Epstein's near-obsession with his presidency, as the latter positioned himself as a Trump whisperer of sorts to his powerful associates.

    This week, after an abrupt reversal that led to the near-unanimous approval of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, the president has now called for Democrats mentioned in Epstein's communications to be investigated by the Justice Department.

    "I will be asking A.G. Pam Bondi, and the Department of Justice, together with our great patriots at the FBI, to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, J.P. Morgan, Chase, and many other people and institutions, to determine what was going on with them, and him," Trump wrote on Truth Social.

    Other Republicans are going on the offensive too — highlighting revelations that Epstein was texting Democratic Del. Stacey Plaskett of the U.S. Virgin Islands during a House Oversight Committee hearing with Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen in 2019.

    Comparing the newly released messages with the video of the hearing, minutes after Epstein suggested Plaskett ask Cohen things about the Trump Organization, Plaskett posed similar questions.

    An effort to censure Plaskett in the House failed Tuesday. In a floor speech, Plaskett defended her actions as receiving information from a constituent and said it was "not public knowledge at that time that he was under federal investigation."

    Amid the partisan finger-pointing around the Epstein files, some of Epstein's accusers are imploring the president not to make things partisan and focus on the other powerful people that they say haven't faced scrutiny — regardless of political party.

    What's next for the government's Epstein files?

    Within 30 days of Trump signing the Epstein Files Transparency Act, the attorney general is supposed to make "all unclassified records, documents, communications, and investigative materials" available in a searchable and downloadable format.

    That includes information that relates to Epstein, his accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell and "individuals named or referenced in connection with Epstein's criminal activities."

    There's also a focus on information regarding plea deals and decisions not to charge Epstein for other alleged crimes, as well as documents pertaining to his 2019 death by suicide in federal custody.

    Over the summer, the FBI put out a memo that said their files include "a significant amount of material, including more than 300 gigabytes of data and physical evidence."

    Some of that includes photos and videos of Epstein's accusers, including minors, and disturbing material that will not be made public. The bill from Congress also says anything "that would jeopardize an active federal investigation or ongoing prosecution" can be withheld or redacted, too.

    With Trump's ordering of the investigation into Democrats and financial institutions mentioned in the Epstein correspondence, it is unclear how much of the Justice Department's files will be released, to what extent they will be redacted and when they ultimately will be made public.

    Copyright 2025 NPR

  • Sponsored message
  • Groups warn against AI toys ahead of holidays

    Topline:

    A nonprofit children's safety organization, Fairplay, is urging gift givers to avoid buying AI toys for children this holiday season, according to an advisory issued on Thursday.

    Why it matters: Fairplay's advisory, headlined "AI Toys are NOT safe for kids," says these toys prey on children's trust and disrupt human relationships, among other harms. The advisory was endorsed by more than 150 experts and groups including MIT professor and author Sherry Turkle, pediatrician and researcher Jenny Radesky, Social Media Victims Law Center, and International Play Association USA.

    Others share concerns: The consumer rights nonprofit's 40th annual "Trouble in Toyland" report says some AI toys enable in-depth talk about sexually explicit topics, have few parental controls, and collect a mountain of data about their underage owners.

    Read on... for more what groups are saying about AI toys.

    A nonprofit children's safety organization, Fairplay, is urging gift givers to avoid buying AI toys for children this holiday season, according to an advisory issued on Thursday.

    Fairplay, along with other child and consumer advocacy groups, say these toys – playthings like plushies, dolls, action figures, and kids' robots embedded with chatbots and other artificial intelligence technologies – can be dangerous.

    Designed to mimic human behaviors and interact with kids as if they were friends, the toys offer novelty at a time when AI is starting to infiltrate many corners of peoples' lives.

    Fairplay's advisory, headlined "AI Toys are NOT safe for kids," says these toys prey on children's trust and disrupt human relationships, among other harms. The advisory was endorsed by more than 150 experts and groups including MIT professor and author Sherry Turkle, pediatrician and researcher Jenny Radesky, Social Media Victims Law Center, and International Play Association USA.

    "It's ridiculous to expect young children to avoid potential harm here," said Rachel Franz, a Fairplay program director, in a statement to NPR. "Young children are especially susceptible to the potential harms of these toys, such as invading their privacy, collecting data, engendering false trust and friendship, and displacing what they need to thrive, like human-to-human interactions and time to play with all their senses. These can have long and short-term impacts on development."

    Others share concerns


    The advisory follows similar recent warnings from the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG). The consumer rights nonprofit's 40th annual "Trouble in Toyland" report says some AI toys enable in-depth talk about sexually explicit topics, have few parental controls, and collect a mountain of data about their underage owners.

    "All of them are collecting your child's voices, potentially. They're collecting their names, their dates of birth. All kinds of information – the kid's likes, dislikes, favorite toys, favorite friends," said Teresa Murray, co-author of the PIRG report and director of its consumer watchdog program, in an interview with NPR. "Because they're connected to the internet, so anything is available, who knows what those toys might start talking to your children about with their friends or their friends' parents or your neighborhood? I mean, it's terrifying."

    Toy industry and AI players highlight safety and privacy


    The toy industry and AI companies are responding to such fears by highlighting their focus on safety and privacy.

    OpenAI said it suspended the maker of the AI-powered teddy bear Kumma earlier this week, after PIRG reported the toy was sharing questionable advice with minors, such as providing details about how to find and ignite matches. When prompted by researchers, it also talked in-depth about sexual matters. "We suspended this developer [the Singapore-based toymaker FoloToy] for violating our policies," OpenAI spokesperson Gaby Raila said in an email to NPR. "Our usage policies prohibit any use of our services to exploit, endanger, or sexualize anyone under 18 years old. These rules apply to every developer using our API, and we monitor and enforce them to ensure our services are not used to harm minors."  

    The company's technologies are also embedded in other AI toys including the AI robot pet Loona, and it entered into a strategic partnership with Mattel earlier this year "to support AI-powered products and experiences based on Mattel's brands." No products have yet been announced. But the company said the initial set of Mattel products and experiences will focus on families and older customers, not users under 13.

    Fairplay singled out several AI toys to demonstrate the potential risks of data collection and the impact on a child's understanding of trust. Among them are Miko, a cute plastic robot that comes with educational games and the tagline "Built to be your new best friend," Loona Petbot, a small, plastic robot companion that moves around on wheels and has a screen and ear-like, and Gabbo, a cube-shaped robot plushy with big anime-style eyes. It has no screen, but can be connected to wifi and do voice chat. NPR has reached out to the makers of these products for comment.

    "Children's safety is our top priority," said Curio, the company behind Gabbo and other AI playthings, in a statement to NPR. "Our guardrails are meticulously designed to protect kids, and we encourage parents to monitor conversations, track insights, and choose the controls that work best for their family on the Curio: Interactive Toys app."

    "Facial recognition on Miko 3 is entirely optional and exists solely to help families enjoy a more personalized and interactive experience," said Ritvik Sharma, a senior vice president at Miko.ai, in an email to NPR. "Importantly, all visual data is processed locally on the device. It is never sent to the cloud or shared externally. To offer families greater confidence and control, every Miko robot includes a physical camera shutter that allows parents to completely block the camera whenever they choose."

    In an email to NPR, The Toy Association, which represents toy manufacturers, said toys sold by responsible manufacturers and retailers must adhere to more than 100 strict federal safety standards and tests, including the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, which governs children's privacy and data security online and is overseen by the Federal Trade Commission. "The Toy Association urges parents and caregivers to shop only from reputable toymakers, brands, and retailers who prioritize children's safety above all else," the statement said, adding that it offers safety tips for A.I. and other connected products to better inform peoples' buying decisions.
    Copyright 2025 NPR

  • LAist listeners on where to find a moment of zen
    laurel_canyon_rainbow.jpg
    A rainbow is seen over Laurel Canyon.

    Listeners of LAist's daily talk show AirTalk with Larry Mantle recently shared some of their favorite places to reset and find balance in Los Angeles — from iconic vistas to some more personal picks.

    Peace in nature: Many listeners touted the natural landscape of Southern California as being the key to their catharsis, like Robert in Hollywood, who likes to ride his motorcycle through Malibu vistas.

    Peace in metropolis: Other listeners centered themselves by being around others, like Roxanne in Redlands, who likes to take the MetroLink from San Bernardino to Union Station to be alone while still surrounded by others.

    Peace anywhere not online: A recurring theme was places where everyone was offline, like Nicholas in Venice Beach, who likes watching the roller disco in Venice Beach.

    Read on... to find out more relaxing spots in SoCal, and to hear AirTalk host Larry Mantle's picks.

    As a newer resident of Los Angeles, I sometimes find the place overwhelming. Luckily, listeners of LAist's daily talk show AirTalk with Larry Mantle recently and generously shared some of their favorite places to reset and find balance — from iconic vistas to some more personal picks.

    Embracing the natural word

    A trail passes winds through a mountain. A cityscape is in the distance.
    Hikers utilize the trails at Griffith Park in Los Angeles.
    (
    Andrew Cullen
    /
    LAist
    )

    Many listeners touted the natural landscape of Southern California as being the key to their catharsis.

    Robert in Hollywood likes to ride his motorcycle out to the Malibu mountains. “There’s a certain turnout where you can stop and in the spring you can look at all the mustards and the poppies. It’s like a whole other world,” he said.

    Jennifer in Indian Wells takes her easel out and does "en plen aire" painting in the Santa Rosa Mountains. “That can transport me pretty easy,” she said.

    True in High Desert heads to the Mormon Rocks in the Cajon Pass “to hike and be with nature”

    Lori in Studio City wrote, “I am so fortunate that I just go to my backyard and enjoy the birds and squirrels and swaying trees. Living in the hills off Laurel Canyon in Studio City is heavenly.”

    Being alone in a crowd

    A train is at a platform. It has a double-deck.
    Metrolink train at Union Station.
    (
    Laser1987/Getty Images/iStockphoto
    /
    iStockphoto
    )

    Other listeners centered themselves by being around others.

    Roxanne in Redlands likes to take the MetroLink from San Bernardino to Union Station. “I find my greatest peace being alone where there are as many people as people,” she explained.

    A recurring theme was places where everyone was offline.

    Debbie in Lake Balboa said the Travel Town railroad museum reminds her of a different time. “It’s a great place to go to watch families having a good time without screens in an old fashioned way," she said. "Even though you’re alone you have people around you.”

    Nicholas in Venice Beach likes to watch the roller disco in Venice Beach — in person. “A lot of things are online right now,” he said. “It’s just nice to go out and see real people smiling…there’s a lot of community there.

    Listen to the full AirTalk segment for Larry’s memories of listeners’ favorite spot below:

    Listen 16:58
    How do you restore your emotional and mental state after a chaotic or stressful day?

  • Trump signed bill releasing doc, what's next

    Topline:

    President Donald Trump has signed a bill to compel the Justice Department to make public its case files on the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, a potentially far-reaching development in a yearslong push by survivors of Epstein's abuse for a public reckoning.

    Why now: Both the House and Senate passed the bill this week with overwhelming margins after Trump reversed course on his monthslong opposition to the bill and indicated he would sign it.

    What does the bill do? The bill compels Attorney General Pam Bondi to release essentially everything the Justice Department has collected over multiple federal investigations into Epstein, as well as his longtime confidante and girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell.

    Read on... for what to expect for this 30-day countdown to produce the files.

    President Donald Trump has signed a bill to compel the Justice Department to make public its case files on the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, a potentially far-reaching development in a yearslong push by survivors of Epstein's abuse for a public reckoning.

    Both the House and Senate passed the bill this week with overwhelming margins after Trump reversed course on his monthslong opposition to the bill and indicated he would sign it. Now that the bill has been signed by the president, there's a 30-day countdown for the Justice Department to produce what's commonly known as the Epstein files.

    "This bill is a command for the president to be fully transparent, to come fully clean, and to provide full honesty to the American people," Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer of New York said Wednesday.

    Schumer added that Democrats were ready to push back if they perceive that the president is doing anything but adhering to "full transparency."

    In a social media post Wednesday as he announced he had signed the bill, Trump wrote, "Democrats have used the 'Epstein' issue, which affects them far more than the Republican Party, in order to try and distract from our AMAZING Victories."


    The swift, bipartisan work in Congress this week was a response to the growing public demand that the Epstein files be released, especially as attention focuses on his connections to global leaders including Trump, former President Bill Clinton, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, who has already been stripped of his royal title as Prince Andrew over the matter, and many others.

    There is plenty of public anticipation about what more the files could reveal. Yet the bill will most likely trigger a rarely seen baring of a sprawling federal investigation, also creating the potential for unintended consequences.

    What does the bill do?

    The bill compels Attorney General Pam Bondi to release essentially everything the Justice Department has collected over multiple federal investigations into Epstein, as well as his longtime confidante and girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year prison sentence for luring teenage girls for the disgraced financier. Those records total around 100,000 pages, according to a federal judge who has reviewed the case.

    It will also compel the Justice Department to produce all its internal communications on Epstein and his associates and his 2019 death in a Manhattan jail cell as he awaited charges for sexually abusing and trafficking dozens of teenage girls.

    The legislation, however, exempts some parts of the case files. The bill's authors made sure to include that the Justice Department could withhold personally identifiable information of victims, child sexual abuse materials and information deemed by the administration to be classified for national defense or foreign policy.

    "We will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency while protecting victims," Bondi told a news conference Wednesday when asked about releasing the files.

    The bill also allows the Justice Department to withhold information that would jeopardize active investigations or prosecutions. That's created some worry among the bill's proponents that the department would open active investigations into people named in the Epstein files in order to shield that material from public view.

    Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a longtime Trump loyalist who has had a prominent split with Trump over the bill, said Tuesday that she saw the administration's compliance with the bill as its "real test."

    "Will the Department of Justice release the files, or will it all remain tied up in investigations?" she asked.

    In July, the FBI said in a memo regarding the Epstein investigation that, "we did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties." But Bondi last week complied with Trump's demands and ordered a federal prosecutor to investigate Epstein's ties to the president's political foes, including Clinton.

    Still, Rep. Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican who sponsored the bill, said "there's no way they can have enough investigations to cover" all of the people he believes are implicated in Epstein's abuse.

    "And if they do, then good," he added.

    The bill also requires the Justice Department to produce reports on what materials it withheld, as well as redactions made, within 15 days of the release of the files. It stipulates that officials can't withhold or redact anything "on the basis of embarrassment, reputational harm, or political sensitivity, including to any government official, public figure, or foreign dignitary."

    Who could be named?

    There's a widely held expectation that many people could be named in case files for investigations that spanned over a decade — and some concern that just because someone is named, that person would be assumed guilty or complicit.

    Epstein was a luminary who kept company with heads of state, influential political figures, academics and billionaires. The release of his emails and messages by a House Oversight Committee investigation last week has already shown his connections with — and private conversations about — Trump and many other high-powered figures.

    Yet federal prosecutors follow carefully constructed guidelines about what information they produce publicly and at trial, both to protect victims and to uphold the fairness of the legal system. House Speaker Mike Johnson raised objections to the bill on those grounds this week, arguing that it could reveal unwanted information on victims as well as others who were in contact with investigators.

    Still, Johnson did not actually try to make changes to the bill and voted for it on the House floor.

    For the bill's proponents, a public reckoning over the investigation is precisely the point. Some of the survivors of trafficking from Epstein and Maxwell have sought ways to name people they accuse of being complicit or involved, but fear they will face lawsuits from the men they accuse.

    Massie said that he wants the FBI to release the reports from its interviews with the victims.

    Those reports typically contain unvetted information, but Massie said he is determined to name those who are accused. He and Greene have offered to read the names of those accused on the House floor, which would shield their speech from legal consequences. "We need names," Massie said.
    Copyright 2025 NPR