As far as I am aware, no decision has been made regarding gay couples married before November 4th and Prop 8 passes. I believe that is yet to be seen.

Ugly American, I can guarantee you that will not happen. All this law does is require THE STATE to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. That is it. It says NOTHING about what a church has to do. If a church does not want to preside over the ceremony, that is perfectly fine. Having the state issue marriage licenses is divorced from the idea of the religious ceremony. You can go to your local city hall or county office and get married, no religious ceremony necessary. People need to recognize that marriage, from the state's perspective, is purely a CIVIL contract between two people.

Besides, why do people think that a gay couple would WANT a church to marry them when that church doesn't want anything to do with them?

Fear mongering at its best.

Ugly American, stop trying to spread confusion and falsehoods. It's very deceitful.

The law has NEVER forced a church to recognize marriages it doesn't want. The Catholic church doesn't recognize second (heterosexual) marriages, and they aren't forced to recognize homosexual marriages of any kind.

Their established religious sacraments have always been protected by the First Amendment, and would remain so if Prop 8 fails. There is absolutely no contention about this and never has been.

I wouldn't trust a poll unless I knew how they were asking the questions, what part of town they were doing it in, and if they including the cell phone demographic. Many of the younger crowd no longer feel the need to have a land line and rely soley on their cell phones, also younger people also tend to be more liberal.

As for TUA's scare tactic articles that were linked. I could see a problem for the church. If they are making a profit and offering secular as well as religious weddings. I could see them losing their tax exempt status. Not for refusing the gay couple, but because what they are now engaged in is a comercial enterprise.

As for the photography couple, of course I think they have the right to refuse doing business with whom ever they dislike. But they should have to specify in their advertisments, business cards, etc., "No Gay Weddings".

As a tolerant heterosexual I would be very angry to find out after the fact that I had done business with intolerant, bible thumping, bigots.

How is asking valid questions, spreading confusion, falsehoods and employing scare tactics?

Some are questioning why this prop is failing and I'm giving my opinion. Honestly, I’m beginning to think that LAist is nothing more than an echo chamber.

The quicker you stop avoiding these issues and talk more openly and honestly about voter concerns, the better chance this Prop has of passing. You're not doing the No on Prop 8 people any favors by insulting and belittling 47% of California voters. Diversity and tolerance goes both ways. 

As for the Catholic Church/second marriage issue...divorced persons are not pointedly covered under California non-discrimination laws. Gay people are.

Yes, the current law does not force churches to recognized gay marriage but after effects of discrimination suits is a reality that cannot be ignored.

I'm starting to think that what you say about yourself in your profile is a lie.

Why? ...because my views are not lock step with GLAAD?

Honestly jrb, you really should travel more outside your little exclusionary liberal bubble world.

Oh and you views aren't even consistant with log cabin Republicans.

You don't have to prove anything to me TUA. After all, this is the internet, and I'm just another techno junkie who loves a good political debate.

I would like to ask a couple of burning questions that usually stump Log Cabin Repubs I have discussions with.

Maybe you can do better.

1.) Why would you align yourself politically with people who have trouble accepting you as a fellow human being, much less an equal one.

2.) Nature or nurture? In you opinion, is being gay or lesbian a choice or were you born that way?

Wow! jrb, since when did a person born with same-sex attraction lose their choice to act?

jrb and rdm24, so much talk about how churches will not be forced to marry same-sex couples. While it is true, none have been so coerced and you two may never think of doing so. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't if Prop 8 fails. Just look to other jurisdictions where marriage has been re-defined to include sam-sex couples. When you look at Canada, Massachusetts, and the Netherlands, look also at the government intrusion. Look particulary at Cananda and the religious leaders who have been fined by the government for teaching the doctrine of their church which is against same-sex marriage and the PRACTICE of homosexuality. How's that for less government intrusion. Californians are possibly the most highly regulated of all the states and it will only increase if Prop 8 fails.

So let's just let all of our homosexual brothers and sisters keep all the rights they have under the Domestic Partnership Act (which are the same as heterosexual married couples) without allowing the title of married. After all that's the only "right" they stand to lose. A "right" that four judges fashioned according to their personal idealogy. That should scare homo/heterosexuals, liberals and conservatives, blacks and whites, religious and non religous more than anything.

I challenge you to read In re Marriages, the Supreme Court decision that redefined marriage and see if it sits well. Pay particular attention to the dissent, who is in favor of homosexual marriage.

Let's get educated and have an intellectual rather than an emotional debate.