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You made Shaq leave LA. You made Payton leave LA. You even made Coach Jackson leave LA (temporarily, as life is an ebb and flow, etc.)
The Big Fella moved to Miami and the Glove ended up there with him. Pat Riley came out of coaching retirement and right now LAist is sitting in front of our plasma screen watching Gary Payton nearly cry from winning his first ring.
That 81-point game of yours was freakish and novel, but it didn't lead to a ring.
All you care about is yourself, all we as Lakers fans care about are titles. You should be embarrassed that the Lake Show wasn't even the best NBA team in LA. You should be ashamed at what you broke up.
Shaq has proven that even with age, injuries, and issues at the charity stripe, that he indeed was the heart of the post-Magic Lakers
and you were the ego.
Have a nice summer, number 8, because next year at this time we want to be watching people burning shit outside of Staples. As it should be.
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very silly post. Wade was the story, not Shaq. Shaq requested a trade. The owner didn't want to pay him. This story is soooooooo played out.
although Kobe is an amazing player athletically and is probably the single best one on one player in the game, he is a self-serving, arrogant, greedy bastard who loves the spot light. He loves his own little gestures (copying Michael Jordans gum chewing and arm thrusts after shots) brushing his shoulders off and finger waving because he is his own one man show. He doesn't make his team better he makes himself better. His lost endorsements and self guilt for his public humiliating trial ruined his "good" image forever. Long live LeBron and Wade to carry on how a real NBA player is supposed to carry themselves on and off the court.
"You made Shaq leave LA." No he didn't. "You made Payton leave LA." No he didn't. "You even made Coach Jackson leave LA." No he didn't. "Pat Riley came out of coaching retirement" well, that's one way to describe a GM backstabbing the coach and taking over the team. Grow the eff up! Ferchrissakes, how can a *paid* blogger be pushing such a tired, discredited storyline? Tony, you are entitled to your (lame, ill-informed) opinion, but please do not claim to speak for Laker fans, as your POV is 180 degrees from the consensus among Laker fans. Don't believe me? Check any laker board. Sure, we're upset tonight as baskeball fans and as human beings - it always sucks to see good things happen to bad people - but if you think anything but a fringe group of Laker fans is angry at Kobe Bryant right now, you're out of your mind.
The "Kobe Bryant is arrogant" argument doesn't work anymore. I'm sorry. I've watched this player grow from the immature kid who threw up airballs in a playoff game to changing his gameplan to make sure that his star-center teammate was fed the ball enough times to win three championships to taking on the ultimate leadership role and carrying a group of underachievers to the NBA playoffs and a game seven. Arrogant? Arrogance is when one doesn't want to sacrifice one's game for the betterment of the team. Kobe sacrificed his game to make sure Shaq fit well into the team's system and dominated the paint. Arrogance is when one player refuses to play the game and take it seriously because they're getting paid big bucks. Kobe's work ethic has yet to change and has gotten more rigorous as the years hav passed. If arrogance means you have to take the last shot as the clock is winding down because you're the best clutch performer on the team, then I'll take that arrogance with pleasure. If arrogance leads to having 5 different teammates have career scoring years, then I'll take that arrogance with pleasure. People change, and Kobe has definitely changed. He's not as outgoing as Shaq, and he never will be. He might not have that media-friendly approach like LeBron, but so what. We easily forget how huge Michael Jordan's ego was. I had nothing against Jordan. He wasn't humble. He wasn't a comedian. He was Mr. Basketall 24/7. He took it to you every night. What did that attitude bring him? Six NBA championships and absolute respect as the greatest of all time by everyone who plays basketball today. I don't punish Kobe for his immature actions from 5 or 6 years ago. I don't punish him for his feuds with Del Harris, Phil Jackson, Shaquille O'Neal, George Karl, Karl Malone, etc. The man's not perfect. But neither is everyone I just listed. Jordan had his share of problems. And LeBron and D-Wade will have theirs as well. You forget they're just NBA babies right now. They're young, rich, and on top of the world: a bad combo when surrounded by so much hype and pressure. Kobe is who Kobe is. A three-time champion (who will probably end his career with a couple more rings), a hall-of-famer, and a human being.
I'm an LA Lakers fan, so I would never say something like this. I actually support our team.
Sure, I can admit that Buss and Kupchak might have gone the wrong way in terms of immediate gratification, but at least I can look a few years down the road.
Even after taking a paycut, Shaq still makes the largest salary in the NBA, and other than Wade, what solid prospects does Miami have for the future. As the defending champions, I guarantee the Heat will not be favored to win next year's championship, what with GP out the door, Zo pondering retirement, and Shaq getting even older and slower.
We're rebuilding. There's no question Shaq was a dominant force, but he leaves a mess wherever he goes. Just like every other great player. The Lakers can't ALWAYS be great.
btw... when Kobe found out that Shaq had been sent to the Heat, he was actually in Utah hearing trade proposals himself, and picturing life in a different part of the country (or in a Clippers jersey).
This post was really disappointing, coming from someone who makes himself out to be a Lakers fan.
"I'm an LA Lakers fan, so I would never say something like this. I actually support our team."
So to support the team means to never admit when the "star" of the team has made a mess of the organization?
To me, supporting a team means to be honest with them, it means being honest with myself, and it means being honest in the words that i type and speak.
Sorry if my honesty disappoints you.
word. great post - you hit it right on the nose. the best f-u to kobe was what happened tonight. the lakers should've been playing in 3 more championships instead of watching it on tv.
Tony, it is the vapid, indefensible *content* of your post - not your "honesty" - that has sparked reaction here. Care to discuss/defend any of that actual content, or are you just going to let it sit there like a steaming pile while you pat yourself on the back for your "honesty"? "Honestly," you sound like a carpetbagger (at LAist ... whoda thunk!) who hasn't even *followed* the Lakers in recent years, let alone been a fan.
Care to discuss, westy, why you aren't leaving behind an email address or url?
Scared of something?
Get your facts right, before you post a silly blog entry like this one. It sounds like your discribing yourself here...If it wasent for Wade Shaq and the heat would have not made it to the finals. This proves how valuable Koby was to the three championships here in L.A. Shaq get's most of the credit but we all know that, without Koby or Wade Shaq has no ring.
(test - leaving e-mail address)
well, I don't know what's wrong with your site but I've entered an e-mail address on each of my comments. It's westy310 (at) sbcglobal (dot) net. OK, I'll bite: what exactly would I be afraid of, a strongly-worded e-mail? Why so eager to take this to e-mail, Tony? You don't think your words can survive the light of day?
no, just curious. it's usually those without email addresses, websites or blogs who say the dumbest things in the comments sections of sites.
so please, carry on.
Zing! You got me! I take it all back!
my grandma has been a Laker fan since the Jerry West days, and she hates Shaq for being a big baby and not working it out with Kobe, not the other way around.
if it's good enough for Grandma, it's good enough for me.
so because penis was good enough for your grandma, then i suspect it's good enough for you too?
tell your grandma that working things out is a two-way street and when you have guys like payton, shaq, and phil all heading for the hills after the '03-'04 season - it's pretty easy to see which street is full of potholes.
the following is from the associated press story of jackson's book a few days before it was released
you should have gotten your grandma Phil's book instead of letting her be wrong all these years.easy on the penis/grandma connotations, hi-pitch, or i'll come up and slap the remaining black off ye.
fair enough on the Jackson book passage though. it's weird, people up there just love Kobe regardless.
ps. my man GP exercised his option to return to the Lakers, after which they traded him to the Celtics. that certainly wasn't Shaq's fault.
youre the one who brought grams into this, so if youre gonna slap anyone, may i suggest you keep slapping yourself.
as for the Glove, if you think Kobe wanted to keep him instead of having the Lakers trade him away for Mihm and Chucky then you've been dipping into grammas pills tonight.
"working things out is a two-way street and when you have guys like payton, shaq, and phil all heading for the hills after the '03-'04 season - it's pretty easy to see which street is full of potholes."
Shaq is now with his third franchise, his fourth core group of teammates, and his seventh head coach. Payton has played for five different franchises in the past five seasons. Either of them "heading for the hills" is a dog-bites-man story.
As for Shaq being the ego-less "heart" of the post-Magic lakers, hoo-boy, where do I start? Here's what Tex Winter had to say about Shaq after the 2003-04 season (article from the Oregonian):
Straight from Jackson's book that you reference:
And let's not forget some of Shaq's greatest hits, like when he declared during the 2003-04 season that he wouldn't rebound or play defense unless he got more touches on offense (what a team player!):
Or when he delayed off-season surgery in 2002, probably costing the Lakers a chance at a four-peat, rationalizing it with this gem:
What a team player!
Or how about when, on the eve of the 2003-04 season, with three years left on his contract, Shaq starts whining to the media about yet another extension? I'm going to post this entire wire service article, because it's pure gold:
And this article sugar-coats it - according to others in attendance, he was actually yelling "pay me motherf***er"
So ... why did Shaq leave again?
At times Bryant is clueless. Like when he appears in the NBA promo ad saying, "I love your passion!" Is that what you told her in Colorado?
From the time I was old enough to even understand the game of basketball, I was always a Lakers fan. A moment I remember so vividly was, against Portland in the 99-2000 western conf. finals,when Kobe set up Shaq for an alley-oop over Wallace and the look in both of those guys' faces when they knew they were 1step closer to their goal. That hungry and fresh Laker's squad embodied determination,heart and team play. Not to say that the squad we have now dosen't have that, it's definitely a rebuild. But I really do believe that carrying yourself humbly and genuinely good hearted as a person on or off the court will reward you 10 fold more than a championship. "Humble" dosen't win championships, that's true. Kobe's good, he's undoubtedly the best in the league right now. We all know what he's capable of. I've seen him downplay himself for Shaq and change his game up for the other players on the court. But I have seen that it's a task for him to get rid of always "thinking about just him". Humble didn't win a championship this year, fine. Maybe humble gained respect in that laker locker room and instead of a team, established a family. Kobe's not an out going person. I don't expect him to change that up- Maybe we need to get that bad image of Kobe out of our heads. Fact is, even though he really messed up. He's what we have, he's our Laker. He's got some growing up to do still- but you'd be surprised the strength of these players when they know we have their back. Kobe's a great player. He just needs to learn how to be a great leader.
From the time I was old enough to even understand the game of basketball, I was always a Lakers fan. A moment I remember so vividly was, against Portland in the 99-2000 western conf. finals,when Kobe set up Shaq for an alley-oop over Wallace and the look in both of those guys' faces when they knew they were 1step closer to their goal. That hungry and fresh Laker's squad embodied determination,heart and team play. Not to say that the squad we have now dosen't have that, it's definitely a rebuild. But I really do believe that carrying yourself humbly and genuinely good hearted as a person on or off the court will reward you 10 fold more than a championship. "Humble" dosen't win championships, that's true. Kobe's good, he's undoubtedly the best in the league right now. We all know what he's capable of. I've seen him downplay himself for Shaq and change his game up for the other players on the court. But I have seen that it's a task for him to get rid of always "thinking about just him". Humble didn't win a championship this year, fine. Maybe humble gained respect in that laker locker room and instead of a team, established a family. Kobe's not an out going person. I don't expect him to change that up- Maybe we need to get that bad image of Kobe out of our heads. Fact is, even though he really messed up. He's what we have, he's our Laker. He's got some growing up to do still- but you'd be surprised the strength of these players when they know we have their back. Kobe's a great player. He just needs to learn how to be a great leader.
Love this post. It is right on the mark. Thank you Tony for telling it the way it should be for all the fair weather Laker fans.
"youre the one who brought grams into this, so if youre gonna slap anyone, may i suggest you keep slapping yourself.
as for the Glove, if you think Kobe wanted to keep him instead of having the Lakers trade him away for Mihm and Chucky then you've been dipping into grammas pills tonight."
one, you said that Glove et al "headed for the hills", i.e. "left". hard to infer that Kobe engineered a trade for a journeyman guard and a Jack Haley clone.
two, you are a douchebag for calling out grandma. all i was saying is she doesn't like Shaq, and you got all vile. she's 50 times the Laker fan you'll ever be, so take that weak UCSB-by-way-of-Chicago wannabe shit out of SoCal.
i love your writing, Tony, but your shit does occasionally stink.
Actually, one of the ironies about Miami winning with Shaq in the post is how insignificant he seemed, especially compared with the dominant player of the past. He demanded that the Lakers trade him because Kobe was now the Man, only to go to a team where another player was even more dominant. To see the Heat bench the Big Aristotle down the stretch in the games they won, simply because they were scared of his free throw shooting, was almost cringe-inducing.
1. the Glove (and the Mailman) took a pay cut to join that sweet laker team that lost to detroit. he excercised his option and kobe didnt want him around and the glove didnt want to be around, so they traded him for a PG and a C. neither were all-stars but i can see their thinking, and it didnt work out. but again if kobe and gp got along, gp would be ringless tonight. its his team, he calls the shots. therefore he's to blame when the lakers suck. they currently suck.
2. if you dont want your gramma in the discussion you shouldnt bring her in here. hopefully youve learned a valueable lesson.
3. only my spelling stinks. my shit is aroma-iffic.
4. the comments in LAist are the same as they are in the busblog - theyre here for you to tell me how awesome i am. :)
Tony, your gramma would be so proud of you...how low can you get? Grow up and get your facts right before you start posting blogs that are untrue. I dont know how you became an editor here...FACTS buddy not feelings!
Ron,
both of my grandmothers were strong women who taught me much of what i display here.
and by the way i can get much lower.
grow up? so i can do what, wear a suit?
as for untrue facts, please let me know which facts i have wrong - the Lakers are the worst pro basketball team in LA, much of that is due to Kobe, meanwhile Shaq just won another ring.
please tell me what part of those facts are incorrect.
and finally, "feelings" do play a role in websites like this.
there is a science to this art, but it's not all science.
"as for untrue facts, please let me know which facts i have wrong"
Here's a start:
1. "You made Shaq leave LA."
2. "You made Payton leave LA."
3. "You even made Coach Jackson leave LA"
4. "Shaq has proven that even with age, injuries, and issues at the charity stripe, that he indeed was the heart of the post-Magic Lakers"
And what the hell is this woody you have for Gary Friggin' Payton? What year do you think this is?
Um, let's get one thing straight. There are no facts in sports. Just stats and emotion.
Some of you peeps let your emotions get way too outta hand... so the man dissed kobe. Big fucking deal. His post was one-sided. So, is this your first day at the blogosphere?
Some of your comments, equally one-sided even while chiding him for his one-sidedness, are downright silly.
yeah, you sure display your ignorance, its ovious you dont know your facts. Do you even listen to sports talk radio? read the sports section? Most of your statement are untrue...
"You made Shaq leave LA" - He decline the offer by the lakers and ended up getting a lower salary in miami. FACT
"You made Payton leave LA" - Payton left because he wanted a championship, and lets face it the lakers are not close to a championship team.
You even made Coach Jackson leave LA - His contract expired? how is that making him leave?
"Pat Riley came out of coaching retirement" - yeah, he and shaq force the former coach to resign. Last year shaq was complaining why he didnt get the ball and blaming Stan van gundy...Riley didnt like Stan Van Gundy and was waiting for the opportunity to force him out and with an 11-10 start and with O'Neal hurt, Riley came in...the rest is history
"That 81-point game of yours was freakish and novel, but it didn't lead to a ring." true!
finally!
"all we as Lakers fans care about are titles" - dont all fans care about titles? I believe that is the ultimate goal?
"You should be embarrassed that the Lake Show wasn't even the best NBA team in LA" last time i checked there are 2 important guys who make all of the decisions, Mitch Kupchak and Jerry Buss. Is Koby is to blame for the pathetic players around him?
"Shaq has proven that even with age, injuries, and issues at the charity stripe, that he indeed was the heart of the post-Magic Lakers" In this playoff series he had the worse GAMES in his career. Yeah,he actually got in shape and lost all that fat that he had in a laker uniform. He can thank Wade for his 4th ring...he was the heart of the post-magic lakers not shaq.
Shaq is not so innocent as we like to think, shaq knows how to play the cameras/media and koby doesnt, well he is learning...we can blame two big egos for the destruction of team, not just one!
I take it back, payton was traded...
"so the man dissed kobe. Big fucking deal. His post was one-sided. So, is this your first day at the blogosphere?"
Unless this is your first day in the blogosphere and/or L.A., you should know that when a salaried blogger for a franchised, corporate website craps out a bunch of ESPN/Jim Rome frat-retard talking points and tries to pass it off as actual commentary from the perspective of a Laker fan, he will be roasted for it.
roasted?
that was roasted?
i wrote an open letter to Kobe after Shaq just won another ring and you, westy, and others whined that i wasn't being a good fan.
a good fan cares about the team, period. the Lakers have a cancer on the team and he wears #8. the Lakers let the heart of their team walk away and he has a ring.
put me on the same level as the best sports talk radio show host, and fellow Gaucho all you want. i appreciate the compliment.
however, if you want any respect from me, you come in here with take, as romey says, that does not suck.
and to further borrow from the jungle: scoreboard, baby. the lakers suck and shaq's heat are champs. take it out on LAist or me or whoever you want, but if you dont point a finger at kobe then you're full of it.
"I wrote an open letter to Kobe after Shaq just won another ring and you, westy, and others whined that i wasn't being a good fan."
Uh, no, tony, you are clearly not a fan, you are a hack writer for a franchised, corporate media outlet, and you wrote a tired regurgitation of factually-challenged talking points lifted from other franchised, corporate media outets. In short, not only are you wrong, you are unoriginal. You bring nothing to the table. Comparing you to Jim Rome? Your weak shit couldn't get airtime at 2am in Bakersfield.
"if you want any respect from me ..." HA HA HA HA HA! Yeah, that's what I'm after. No, I'm just aiming to remind any poor soul who happens upon this site that LAIst is *not* a local site reflecting L.A. local culture and opinions, but a franchised, national site written by carpetbagging poseurs.
"but if you dont point a finger at kobe then you're full of it."
Like i said it takes two not just one person, when you cant poin the finger on shaq too, You're full of it!
Hate him or love him outside of the NBA... Respect his game on the court. I can't even begin to describe how big a Kobe and LA fan I am but I'ma try to be unbiased here.
First of all, Kobe didn't send Shaq anywhere. Wasn't Shaq who had been asking for the huge contract extension with the Lakers since 2003? Who finally got the big money with the Heat? SHAQ!
It's not a matter of physics. Buss went with the Future rather than the Present. Shaq won a title without Kobe, good for him. Let's see how many more they win. He's 34? He's got one more year to win it. If they can't do back to back in Miami his career is OVER while Kobe would be only 28! I figure he's got 7 more GOOD years in him... Put another player by Kobe's side and you have another dynasty.
It's SIMPLE! If Shaq would have stayed in LA, they would've maxed him out and Kobe would've left because they wouldn't afford him... So who's winning in LA with Shaq? Payton? PLEASE.
They chose the future and that is KOBE. Kobe can leave the game with 7 rings and pass you know who as the greatest to ever play the game.. Shaq has 4, that is it. HIS CAREER IS OVER.
I don't care how much you hate Kobe... if you think he's arrogant, fine. You better say Jordan was arrogant also because he WAS.
Hate Kobe as much as you like... HE IS THE GREATEST PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY. Point period, end of discussion.
"So to support the team means to never admit when the "star" of the team has made a mess of the organization?
To me, supporting a team means to be honest with them, it means being honest with myself, and it means being honest in the words that i type and speak.
Sorry if my honesty disappoints you."
You're no laker fan, you love shaq and phil..but not the lakers..if you're truly a laker fan..you will never blame KB,..coz if he have done something wrong for the team..same thing as shaq and phil..so if you're really a laker fan..then you should stick for what the lakers have and try to give them some moral support!
Illmatic fuckin killed that discussion.
I second his post!
The fact you reference Kobe as #8 and not #24 shows you know very little about this subject.
The rest of this post shows you should NEVER, EVER, EVER write about the Lakers (sports?) again.
Honestly. Take my advice. Love the site, but this is sooooooo lame and played out and obvious.
The Lakers (and their business moves) have to be looked at in the scale in the sporting world of what equates to the scale of geologic time in other areas of reference. Buss made the right move and history will prove it out.
Shaq is part of one of the most wretched title in NBA history. Don't believe me? Read some Bill Simmons archives on ESPN.com to see why.
Hell, I'm referencing a die-hard Celtics fan to defend the Lakers. Oh my.
What he said. I mean this post really, really draws my ire. Go back and check some posts I've made about the Lakers on Drunken Audible. The Terry Teagle Rundown is what I call it.
Shaq leaving is a big part of Lakers history. A site called "LAist" needs to know the goods on the towns most storied franchise. We will accept nothing less.
Sports talking points are for bullshit old media outlets like ESPN like buillshit music is for lowest common denominator radio stations like the ones run by Clear Channel.
Look, I don't like Kobe either. He definitely shares the blame for the Lakers' collapse. But, you media types really need to start holding Shaq accountable for his actions, too. After all:
It was Shaq who stopped getting in shape for the regular season after he won his first ring.
It was Shaq who, as a 28 year old, got involved with in a feud with a 21 year old (which began because Kobe wouldn’t defer to an out-of-shape Shaq—did you ever notice they never had problems when Shaq would return to his dominating form in the playoffs, giving Kobe the incentive to defer to him?).
It was Shaq that first took the fued public.
It was Shaq who waited right before the regular season in 2002-2003 to have surgery and then justified this by claiming that he shouldn’t have to rehab off of “company time”).
It was Shaq that cost the Lakers’ the championship in 2003 because he never fully rounded into shape (leading him to actually train the following summer, only to see it all go for naught as Kobe got himself arrested and then pulled the same late surgery b.s. that Shaq had the year before).
It was Shaq , who in the 2003-2004 preseason, showed up his owner in his owner’s own arena by shouting at him from the court to “show him the money” even though he had 3 years and 90 million dollars left on his contract.
It was Shaq who declared in his press conference after the Lakers lost in 2003-2004 that it was every man for himself.
It was Shaq who demanded to be traded even though Kobe was unsigned.
It was Shaq who repeatedly talked sh#t about Kobe in the media for 1.5 years after his trade, while Kobe pretty much kept his mouth shut.
It was Shaq who talked sh#t about the entire city of Los Angeles.
I mean we're talking about some real Terrell Owens stuff right here (except of course, T.O. actually bothered to get in shape and play to the maximum of his ability), but media guys like you continue to kiss Shaq’s butt. I know he’s funny and that he gives a good interview; but if you were a true Lakers fan, you’d be just as pissed at Shaq as I am.