Being the lead in a movie is always a huge responsibility. But when you’re depicting a real life person who had a cult-like following, the pressure is even greater.
That’s what faced Michael Fassbender in the "Steve Jobs" biopic, which has been struggling at the box office. And it’s what confronted Jason Segel earlier this year in “The End of the Tour," where he played the late novelist David Foster Wallace.
“The End of the Tour” is now available on DVD, video-on-demand and streaming services, just in time for Oscar voters to consider whether Segel’s performance is worthy of a nomination.
The movie, directed by James Ponsoldt, takes place in 1996. That’s when Wallace was accompanied by Rolling Stone journalist David Lipsky (played by Jesse Eisenberg) during Wallace’s book tour for his landmark, complex novel, “Infinite Jest.”
Segel is probably best known for acting in any number of Judd Apatow movies, the short-lived but influential Apatow TV show "Freaks & Geeks," and the long-running CBS comedy “How I Met Your Mother."
Segel is also a screenwriter. He wrote the screenplay for (and starred in) “Forgetting Sarah Marshall,” helped Disney reboot a beloved franchise with "The Muppet Movie," and now he’s been tapped to write the Lego movie sequel.
The Frame's John Horn spoke with Segel about why how he was an unlikely choice to play the reclusive, intellectual writer David Foster Wallace, what makes good art, and why he loves family entertainment:
INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS:
What made you decide that you wanted to do this film?
I had to do it from the moment I read it. And if I’m going to be perfectly honest, I felt like no one [was] going to let me do this.
Meaning what?
Well, I’m self-aware. I know that when the David Foster Wallace script comes across someone’s desk, the first thought isn’t, Get Jason Segal on the phone! I know how this town works. This is what separates somebody like James Ponsoldt, who said, “No, I think this guy is the right guy, and I’m trusting my instinct.” That’s a really rare thing.
Where did you find the physical keys to the performance that were helpful to you? And what was not helpful?
Well, there are a few things right from this period that I had access to. David Lipsky gave me access to all of the recordings.
Which are hours upon hours.
Yeah, it’s four days worth of recordings. That was incredibly helpful, as you can imagine. It was important for the tone of the movie. There’s some desire to go into something like this with gravitas. And you listen to the recordings, and there are moments of just two guys talking about what’s on the radio, about fast food. And that was really important. Over four days, it’s not all going to be on message. You get tired and you get bored. And that’s part of the fun stuff of the movie. You need to want to be in that car.
So that was helpful. I had a Charlie Rose interview to watch from that period. Physically, that was really helpful. Emotionally as well. Because you see a guy – every intelligent thing he says is beating himself up. He almost apologizes after each comment. Or does this thing where he says, “Do you know what I mean?”
Because he doesn’t think that he’s conveying it in the right way, or he’s editing his own life in real time?
I think there’s some shame in being smart. Does that make sense?
I feel like there’s a sense ... that you’ve exposed too much. I have, after interviews. You know, you walk away thinking like, Oh, I wish I had been more sound bite-y. And I think he felt that way during that interview. He’s asked, “How do you feel about the movie. ‘Shine’?” And [Wallace] basically dissects “Shine” with Charlie Rose.
He’s there to talk about “Infinite Jest.” And he just dissects this movie with Charlie Rose. And you see him afterwards like, Oh man. I just spent a lot of time talking about how the third act didn’t have a payoff. You see that in a guy. He’s tortured. He’s the biggest brain in the room.
I think when your desire is to just be one with the people around you, but you have this other issue where you’re aware of everybody else’s intentions … I think it’s a really difficult place to be.
The End of the Tour The Internet
Were you able to separate your acting from the performance, and look at your own work as a writer or actor in relation, not to David Foster Wallace, but what it means to you?
It was one of the huge reasons I wanted to take the movie. There was a particular line when I read the script when David Foster Wallace says, “I have to face the reality that now I’m back to being 34 years old, alone in a room with a piece of paper." And I was 34 years old when I made this movie. I was on a TV show that was on for a decade – “How I Met Your Mother” – that had just come to an end.
I got started really with Judd Apatow and our group doing comedies. I found that by my early 30s, I was really thinking of different things than I was when I wrote “Forgetting Sarah Marshall.” And I love that movie. It really was an honest depiction of where I was at 25 years old. But, at 34 years old, I was thinking about entirely different things. And I was at this moment where I thought to myself, Okay, if I’m lucky, I have 50 more years of this. And I need to start thinking about where I am now.
And remember that this is art. There’s a documentary called “Beauty is Embarrassing.” It’s about an artist named Wayne Wright. There’s something embarrassing about even calling what you do art. Because you feel sort of unworthy. There was something about saying, “I make art” that was always embarrassing to me.
But it is [art]. If you’re going to make something of value, and express something, that is what it is. And I needed to reevaluate at this point in my life what I wanted to put out there, and make sure it was a representation of how I was feeling at the time.
Does that really mean that you changed what you were willing and not willing to do? Did it refocus your priorities?
Yeah, absolutely. It’s not only about you feeling good, but your audience. Audiences I think respond to honesty. That’s what I respond to. Somebody who’s really laying bare what they feel, whether it’s music or a movie. Great comedy is the same way. And I thought that it was important to really think about what it is I actually like, what it is I actually am thinking about and [then] doing things in line with that.
And what do you like now? What are the things you’re drawn to?
I tend to like things that are a little weird. It’s no coincidence that “Forgetting Sarah Marshall” ends with a lavish Dracula puppet musical. And that is part of who I am, I guess. I really liked the movie “Frank.” I really liked “Only Lovers Left Alive.” I like these little music box movies that you take off a shelf and they exist as stand-alone pieces.
And how do you take that interest and incorporate it into something like the Lego movie sequel you’re working on now? They seem really different.
I don’t think they are because I think you can take that mentality into anything. And I think there’s something really special. This is a whole other discussion, [but] I am really fascinated with quality family entertainment.
Usually an oxymoron.
Absolutely! But the things that really inspired me when I was growing up were things like Roald Dahl books and "The Goonies," for example. "Labyrinth." These things that illuminate what I think is a very visceral human desire to find out that there’s something more. That someone’s going to show up and say, There’s been a mistake. You belong in a magic place.