The Brief

After a contentious summer of 2020 for the Magic Castle, Carly Usdin felt like they’d started to find their footing at the club again: They found a community of progressive members and was excited to apply for the Diversity and Inclusion Committee.

So when Carly got an emailed grievance claiming that their online criticism of Castle leadership and the environment, combined with “their obvious hate,” were grounds for removal, they wanted to fight back.

Carly Usdin in 2023.

(

Natalie Chudnovsky

/

LAist

)

Listen • 38:22

Listen • 38:22

The Castle: Part 3

Part 3:  Carly Usdin is at risk of getting kicked out of the Magic Castle. Plus, after 2020, the Magic Castle makes changes to address issues of inclusion, including setting up a Diversity and Inclusion Committee. LAist Senior Producer Natalie Chudnovsky explores how the Castle’s promises to do better pan out, several years later. 

The grievance process at the Castle is simple. For $50, any member can file a grievance against another. If the Grievance and Ethics Committee finds the grievance valid, the $50 is returned to the member. If the grievance is found invalid, their money is lost.

“I'm a stubborn person,” says Carly. “And when it comes to matters like this, I can be petty. I wanted nothing more than for them to lose $50.”

Carly spent the next month preparing for their hearing, taking screenshots of the different relevant social media posts and writing out responses to each grievance point in a 12-page document. Their argument rested on the idea that pointing out the flaws of an institution didn’t mean that you hated it — quite the opposite.

(

Samanta Helou Hernandez

/

LAist

)

“If you don’t do everything in your power to change the things you love to make them better, then how can you actually love those things?” Carly wrote in their response document. “So long as I am a member, I am committed to making the AMA [Academy of Magical Arts] and the Castle a place where all are welcome and all feel welcome.”

In Carly’s recollection, there were a dozen people at their hearing. It took place on Zoom, because it was still the thick of the pandemic. After an introduction, one of the members who filed the grievance spoke, and then it was Carly’s turn to state their case. In some ways, it was a moment that mirrored their Castle audition — a tricky performance for established magicians who would decide Carly’s fate. And once again, Carly walked away unsure whether they’d been deemed worthy.

The decisions: the Castle’s and Carly’s

In December 2020, Carly got the phone call from the grievance committee and was told they could remain a member.

But they’d also gotten another piece of news from the Castle. Carly would not be included in the Diversity and Inclusion Committee, the committee they were most excited about seeing to fruition at the Castle.

Carly was satisfied they’d defeated the members who’d filed the grievance — the two men wouldn’t get their $50 back. But Carly was no longer interested in remaining a member of the Castle.

“The only thing that was gonna keep me in,” Carly says, “was if I knew I had a place to be heard. My pettiness was satisfied … those guys didn't get me kicked out, but now I'm going to leave.”

At the beginning of 2021, Carly chose not to pay the annual dues, effectively ending their Castle membership.

For Carly, the loss of the membership, and all the magic, hope and community that it represented, hit hard. But in some ways, it was also a relief.

“I don't have to have that ethical conflict of, ‘Why am I supporting this place?’” says Carly. “And like, sure, this is a place for magic. This is not a place for politics. But also, any space I enter, the people there, and me, we all have to reckon with who I'm perceived as, who I am. And the thing that became very clear to me over the last few years is that I won't go along with anything anymore.”

Another controversy for the Castle

 
In December 2020, the L.A. Times published an explosive investigation into allegations of sexism and racism at the Magic Castle.

(

Samanta Helou Hernandez

/

LAist

)

L.A. Times reporters spoke with 12 people — staff, members and guests — about their experiences. One woman guest described how she was called up to the stage by a performer who tried to touch her chest during his trick. A former cook said racial epithets were common in the kitchen.

One waitress alleged she was sexually harassed and then fired when she reported it to management.

Kayla Drescher, Carly’s friend and professional magician, was quoted in the piece, too, describing one infamous staircase where if you sat underneath, at the bar, you could see up someone’s skirt.

After a long summer of internal tensions and social media call-outs, it was a big deal for the Castle to receive bad press from L.A.’s biggest paper, and for its own members to share the secretive institution’s dirty laundry.

The Castle did take some corrective action after the L.A. Times article. They sent us a long list, which included an internal review, the hiring of a new general manager, the creation of a new human resources director position and a sensitivity and sexual harassment training for the board of directors, trustees and staff. The infamous staircase got some slats installed. One controversial painting was removed.

And then in May 2021, after more than a year of being closed for COVID, the Castle reopened.

The Diversity and Inclusion Committee

The Castle told us that of the 30 people interested in the Diversity and Inclusion Committee, 20 were interviewed by the board and ultimately nine selected, including Kayla Drescher.

Kayla Drescher performing magic.

(

Courtesy of Kayla Drescher

)

Kayla said that in the first year of the D&I Committee’s existence, she pushed through one victory: making the dress code gender-neutral.

“I personally rewrote the dress code,” Kayla says. “So men can wear dresses and skirts, women can wear pants and suits. And if you’re neither of those things, you can wear whatever the hell you want.”

Kayla says that otherwise, the first year was rough going. A lot of time was spent trying to convince other members of the committee that there were problems, she said, and ideas seemed to go nowhere.

“It just felt like we were banging our head up against the wall for nothing,” Kayla says.

Then in 2022, internal elections led to a shakeup in leadership and Kayla became the new head of the Diversity and Inclusion Committee. It was a moment when she thought she could turn things around, and she started by inviting new people to join, including magician Paul Draper.

Draper recalled that in its second year, the committee was working to define itself and prioritize which goals to bring up to the board. Kayla says she felt good about the new iteration of the committee, but when it came time to take action, they ran into a wall.

The problem, according to both Kayla and Paul, was that the D&I Committee didn’t have any real power. It was set up as an advisory committee, presenting recommendations to the people actually in charge of the Castle, the board of directors.

“And so it very quickly became, ‘Well the fire from the L.A. Times article has died down, do we really need to do any of this?’” Kayla says.

LAist tried contacting all the members of the Castle’s 2022 D&I Committee. Besides Paul and Kayla, no one wanted to speak on the record.

We also asked the Castle’s general manager, Hervé Lévy, who joined in 2021, about these issues.

Unlike the folks on the Diversity and Inclusion Committee, Lévy is a paid employee of the Castle. He says he’s been working to create a better culture there, as well as clearer systems for people to report incidents. He is also openly gay and says that he felt embraced by the Castle right away.

When we asked why the D&I Committee’s recommendations were not implemented, Hervé said that the committee's vision lacked clarity.

“It was not presented the right way,” says Hervé. “So yes, they were turned down because the ideas weren’t that great. And you know what? You don't wanna implement bad ideas.”

When we asked which ideas he felt needed improvement, Hervé could not immediately provide an example.

The brick wall

(

Samanta Helou Hernandez

/

LAist

)

LAist was provided a list of priorities the D&I Committee drafted for the Castle’s board of directors in August 2022. Recommendations included the implementation of a DEI calendar, as well as goals for the future, like including more information about a more diverse array of magicians in its building tours.

One of the D&I Committee’s recommendations was that booked performers be required to take a training — according to Kayla, she wanted to require the same sensitivity and sexual harassment trainings that staff received. The document’s stated reason for the training is because “there have been many reports or issues surrounding sensitivity from magicians performing all over the Castle,” and also suggests an implementation plan.

Magician performers at the Castle are booked a week at a time, and are often coming from all over the country to perform in the space. Kayla felt that this kind of training was important to get different performers on the same page about appropriate language and interactions.

She felt this would help prevent problematic patter, sexual harassment and other incidents like the ones reported on in the L.A. Times, and that happened to her and Carly at the Castle.

Kayla was also going to get a rare chance to make a presentation to the Board of Directors in the fall of 2022 — but she and another D&I Committee member would get exactly 20 minutes, so she decided to focus on a few concrete recommendations, including the one about harassment and sensitivity training.

When she presented to the board, Kayla says she immediately felt dismissed. Following that presentation, Kayla decided not to renew her Magic Castle membership.

“Every time something happens, whether it be at the Magic Castle or in the industry, a layer of a brick gets put down, and for now you can just easily step over that layer of brick,” says Kayla of the prejudices she’s faced in the magic world. “And eventually the layers get taller and taller. You have to climb over it, or somebody has to help you. But eventually the wall gets so big, it's just not worth your time. And that is what happened with me and my Castle membership.”

When we asked Lévy about the training recommendation, he initially said that it would be “very complicated to do training for someone’s who’s here for only a week,” and that instead the Castle has a phone call with performers about language and not touching guests — not a “formal training,” but “setting expectations.”

General Manager/COO of the Magic Castle Hervé Lévy in the Magic Castle, on Oct. 13, 2021.

(

Valerie Macon

/

AFP via Getty Images

)

When we asked in March 2023 whether Hervé would want to implement a formal training, he said he would and that it’s “definitely coming.”

When we checked in October 2023, the Castle told us they still hadn’t implemented a training for booked performers, but were working to roll out a training in January 2024. They also said they did not intend to require training for members. A Castle rep said that policies about appropriate behavior are “clearly defined” for members when they join and “reiterated from time-to-time in internal communications.”

Still on the D&I Committee

The last time we talked to Paul Draper in March 2023, he was still on the D&I Committee.

He said it was still slow going. For example, the committee wanted to get a spot in the monthly emailed newsletter, so they could tell other members about their work and highlight lesser-known magicians.

The first article was just going to be an introduction. He said it took 10 months of meetings, revisions and back-and-forths before the introduction was included in the emailed newsletter.

When we brought up the pace of change to Hervé, he said changes happen slowly in order to account for everyone’s opinions.

“So yes,” he said, “it's gonna be slow process, but we need to do it right.”

We asked to interview the new head of the D&I committee who replaced Kayla, but he declined.

We checked in with the Castle one last time in October 2023 to see if any new D&I Committee recommendations had been implemented. They had none to report.

A different perspective on the Castle

While we spoke off the record to other former Castle members whose experiences of the Castle were similar to Kayla and Carly’s, we also spoke with several members whose interactions with the Castle were overwhelmingly positive and who felt that the Castle did make meaningful changes after 2020.

(

Samanta Helou Hernandez

/

LAist

)

Georgia Lyle is one of those members. Georgia is a retired physics teacher, magician and a trans woman. Like Carly, she initially came to magic by way of the Castle, when her friend invited her for a night out at the club.

Georgia was in her 50s and exploring her gender identity and starting to experiment with feminine gender expression. She still remembers what she wore that first night at the Castle — a silver dress that went just below the knee.

“I was very self-conscious,” says Georgia. “I would go to a showroom and I would very intentionally go to the back row because I didn't want to get called upon. And the thing that struck me was that at the Castle, everybody was very nice. Everybody treated me really well and nobody made a fuss over me.”

Georgia started going to the Castle more frequently, eventually taking lessons and finally passing her audition and becoming a member. The membership card held special significance, because it was her first piece of ID with her correct name.

Georgia is actively involved at the Castle now, performing, teaching and giving tours. And for Georgia, the Castle is a place of acceptance.

“I find that I have never been treated badly in the club,” says Georgia. “My feeling as a trans woman is that the club provided me the experience that I wanted, which was basically the ability to be myself. And I'm respected because of the things I do. I'm respected because I do magic.”

After the summer of 2020, Georgia felt that the Castle owned up to its issues. So did magician and mentalist Michael Gutenplan.

“I personally have never had problems with homophobia or being discriminated against because I'm gay in the magic world,” says Michael. “But I think the older members of our magic world sometimes need a reminder that the world has changed … I feel that there are people that want the world to instantly change for their benefits, and I wish it would, but the truth is, change takes time.”

When asked about other members’ experiences of sexism and racism, both Georgia and Michael said that they hadn’t personally had bad experiences at the club. During the summer of 2020, on that members-only Facebook group, there were other members who offered their experiences as counterpoints to members who said they’d had problematic ones.

We asked Hervé how he thought about how to prioritize feedback — how to take the bad experiences of the few seriously. He said that he takes everyone’s experiences very seriously.

We also asked Georgia about how she grappled with how Carly’s experience was so different from her own.

“That is a dilemma,” she says. “Because you know, I have my perspective, but it's the perspective of somebody who's older and I'm imposing, so I think there's a lot of people who would not do things with me that they might do with somebody who's younger and more attractive,” says Georgia. “I think most people who are or were members of the Magic Castle had a fairly major investment in becoming a member. You don't do it lightly. So if they are feeling uncomfortable, that definitely needs examination.”

Kayla and Carly today

Carly Usdin in 2023, with all their decks of cards.

(

Natalie Chudnovsky

/

LAist

)

Kayla Drescher moved to Chicago and now performs at the Chicago Magic Lounge.

“There are posted signs everywhere that tell you what to do if you wanna report bad behavior,” says Kayla of her new performance space. “There's a team meeting every single day that reminds people to use non-binary gender inclusive language as a performer … then when something does happen, like we had a drunk guest who got a little bit handsy, and that guest was asked to leave.”

Kayla says she’s found a different, more progressive magic community, elsewhere.

Carly Usdin’s suitcase of magic stuff.

(

Natalie Chudnovsky

/

LAist

)

Meanwhile, it’s been three years since Carly left the Castle. And even longer since they’ve done any magic tricks.

During the last interview for this story, in their home, Carly pulled out dusty boxes of magic materials: pieces of rope, sponge rabbits, white handkerchiefs, books on magic and over two dozen different decks of cards.

Carly said that enough time had passed between them and their Castle days that they mostly just felt nostalgic.

“I miss doing this a little bit,” says Carly, as they glance at the cards. “When I go to put all this away later, I'll maybe leave one deck out.”

This is a digital companion piece to Imperfect Paradise: The Castle. To listen to the audio version of this episode, click here.