Co-creator and star Jerrod Carmichael tells The Frame why the NBC comedy "The Carmichael Show" tackles social issues like sexual identity and the Bill Cosby controversy; The Police's drummer Stewart Copeland gets the 1925 silent film "Ben-Hur" out of cold storage to write its score; Teenage classical music students learn to improvise.
From Cosby to gun control, NBC's 'The Carmichael Show' takes social issues head-on
There’s been a rapid evolution in the world of TV comedies. Not that long ago, the primetime schedules were filled with series that relied on nonstop lowbrow, inoffensive jokes.
But over the last few years, the TV comedy has grown up. Now thanks to shows like “Transparent,” “Modern Family,” “Blackish” comedies have proven that they can address social issues while also being entertaining.
In some ways, it’s a return to what Norman Lear did with Archie Bunker and “All in the Family” so many years ago.
“The Carmichael Show,” now in its second season on NBC, is one sitcom that’s unafraid to make social issues fodder for the show. A recent episode examined the sexual assault allegations against Bill Cosby from a variety of perspectives. Other episodes have dealt with transgender kids, the black lives matter movement, gun control and infidelity.
The show was co-created by and stars comedian Jerrod Carmichael. Many times Carmichael's character plays the devil’s advocate in the middle of spirited living room debates, which Carmichael says comes from personal experience in his own family.
Earlier this week, we visited the set of The Carmichael Show as the cast and crew were rehearsing an upcoming episode about another topical issue: depression. The mom and girlfriend characters were arguing over the value of therapy and Carmichael’s character was acting as sort of a mediator in the scene. At one point he says, “I feel like I’m watching a tennis match.”
When The Frame's John Horn spoke with Jerrod Carmichael at a break in rehearsal, he asked him about that line and a whole lot more.
To hear the full interview click the blue play button at the top of this page.
INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS:
During the rehearsal, your character is watching your girlfriend and mom debate about the importance of therapy, and your character says, "I feel like I'm watching a tennis match." That almost perfectly sums up the show.
Some of the best moments of my life are those verbal tennis matches. In television -- in the sitcom format -- we try and throw smoke bombs and distractions, and I really believe that if the perspective is interesting enough, then people will pay attention and people will be really excited by it. So that's why perspective is so important so that the tennis match is exciting, that's always been the intention and that's always where I'm inspired the most.
You have, in recent episodes, talked about cheating, gun control, sexual and gender identity, Bill Cosby, and yet you are a comedy.
[Laughs] You know, real zany topics like that [laugh.]
But it's a trip because you are trying to wrestle with super serious ideas and subjects and yet you also have to do an entertaining show. So as you're writing or pitching, how seriously do you think about the difficulty of pulling it off and making sure that you still have an entertaining conversation about what may be -- like in the case of Bill Cosby -- a really serious issue?
Yeah, absolutely. Well if it's a topic where a human being is involved or something that means a lot to people, we respect the integrity of that topic, never disrespect the integrity of the subject itself. What I think we all do in conversation in our everyday lives, I think humor happens very naturally -- people talk and people being very strong in their opinions -- humor kind of naturally happens.
You think of these moments that break tension and you create a bubble and then you pop that. You create another bubble and you do it again and you find ways to let something breathe and you find a way to let something exist and be real and heavy, and then someone else comes in with a different opinion and that maybe is where the comedy comes from.
So I trust that eventually we will get to something funny or maybe it won't, and then it should exist like that. I just really want to treat the audience like adults.
A couple of weeks back, somebody pitches these two words: Bill Cosby. What is the conversation you have afterwards?
Let's go even further back than that. It was me saying we're gonna do a Bill Cosby episode [laughs.]
And what was the reaction to your staff?
The staff is excited. I wanted to do it last season.
But what changed?
It wasn't the time. I think us being a show that people could trust to cover things was needed first. I think that we've earned a certain amount of leeway, a certain amount of respect, a certain amount of trust to cover a topic. So I think that Bill Cosby now falls into a list of conversations as opposed to just the novelty. So it was a decision to wait and not doing it was not an option.
And what was the intention of the episode? Was it to make people challenge their own beliefs of what they should and should not do? Was it to illuminate the issue of what it means to actually go see somebody who is accused of all of these crimes?
That the was question. The question was, "Where do we place him now?" A lot of the episodes revolved around this this question that when I'm most excited, it's some type of hypothetical question where the answer may not be clean and clear. So, "Where do we place Bill Cosby now?," lead to all types of conversations, from still in a fond place in our heart to in jail! It's a wide range of answers to that and we just wanted to answer that question.
In an era of single-camera shows, you are not that. You are live and in front of an audience, you're old school. Why is that important to you and why is this setting itself important to the material that you're presenting?
Because it keeps us honest. The audience reacts immediately. You know how someone feels and so you keep going, even as a performer, you're on your toes, you have to be. It's a living, breathing thing. It's a thing that reacts, it's a thing that could turn at any moment. I think that the format itself, it was approached with fear and laziness. I don't think that the format is old school, it wasn't receiving the care that it deserves. It was cheapened, not just in production, but in intention and dialogue, and it was cheap and it treated people like children.
I mean, to be quite honest with you, I found myself so angered by that I was like, "I gotta do it." There's obviously very shining examples and there are people who masterfully pull it off. You look at Chuck Lorre, he's found a science and a rhythm and he's found a way of accomplishing entertaining multi-cams. It can be done but I just think, for the most part, people were just doing the same unbelievable character turns. The same things that were just cheap and that we refuse to do.
Tell me about the make up of the writing staff and what you look for in comedy and life experience.
People that would argue with me. Every interview was an argument. We talked until we disagreed and then we talk for an hour because it was important. It should resemble Lincoln's cabinet more than anything, right? It's just a bunch of opposing minds and opposing views meeting to find what hopefully makes a great episode.
So you want to be challenged.
Of course, or otherwise we're wasting our time. If you think about, if you're not challenged by your friends, those around you, if you're not challenged by the content you receive, then your brain is just wasted. I didn't want to make a show that was a waste.
Where does that idea of being challenged come from for you?
Everything good in my life has come from me questioning everything, challenging everything, from me feeling challenged. Everything, everything. The television shows I watched challenged me. The music I listen to, it gives me something to figure out, even if it's a jazz instrumental, the trombone needs to be doing something that I can't just immediately understand. It gives me something to search for, a reason to use my brain. So challenges within the writers' room, the show, with the content is the most important thing that we could possibly do.
Is there ever a point where you think you've crossed the line on writing a joke or on a topic and you veer back to comedy?
I'm always running from comedy. How is that for a comedian? A comedian who ain't got no jokes! I'm running towards truth and I'm running towards -- in the show -- I'm running towards intention and the clash. Comedy is the escape from it, but only after you get yourself into a little trouble.
"The Carmichael Show" airs on Sunday nights on NBC.
Teen classical musicians learn how to throw out the sheet music and improvise
As if being a teenager doesn't come with enough anxiety, try deciding to pursue a career as an artist at the same time. Luckily for aspiring creatives, organizations such as the National YoungArts Foundation have been guiding high schoolers through this process since 1981.
YoungArts provides scholarships to fledgling artists of all disciplines: actors, filmmakers, painters, writers, musicians and more. They also put on regional programs — in Miami, YoungArts's headquarters, as well as New York and Los Angeles — where winners can receive a week’s worth of coaching from professionals in their field.
Recently, at the Los Angeles workshop, a handful of classical musicians had their preconceptions about music challenged.
Classical musicians are raised to be precise. They're taught to treat each note of a score as law — to perform in exact tempo and flawlessly in tune. But for professional violinist and educator Daniel Bernard Roumain, getting young orchestral musicians to play with sound is vital.
With this group of students — some of the most accomplished in the country — Daniel designed a series of exercises meant to get them to riff off each other. That’s second nature to a jazz performer or a guitarist in a jam band, but it was new and even uncomfortable for these musicians.
Aubree Oliverson is a 17-year-old violinist selected from a pool of thousands to be here. She’s been playing since she was six years old. She observed that "Daniel [was] a very interesting, passionate artist." At first, she didn't know what to think of him — saying "he had some really wacky ideas."
But Roumain is trying to address what he considers a failing of classical music education.
"One thing that occurs to me is that classical music students are told to do just about every aspect of their lives and careers," Roumain explained. "They're told what to play, when the concert is, what to wear, where to sit. They don’t have a lot of control, really."
Roumain was one of the master teachers at YoungArts Los Angeles, a recent and intense week-long workshop for teenage artists of all disciplines. At the end of the week, each discipline performed a show, and Roumain wanted his students to produce something way outside their standard recital paradigm. Their show was a mixture of live film scores, brief, flashy solos, and reinterpretations of classical standards, such as a Bach prelude traded off between cello and tuba.
"They've created their own groups and collaborations," Roumain said. "They're, in many ways, in complete control, of at least this concert. Certainly they've had a lot of say this week."
Roumain also pushed his students to improvise with each other — a skill that can go entirely neglected for classical musicians. But he believes these exercises had a lot of broader applications: "When they graduate, they’ll have to make all their choices themselves. Hopefully, they’re getting a good sense of what’s waiting for them, [after] their academic careers."
It’s all part of a larger effort to encourage students to decide what they want classical music to be like, to think outside tradition. That’s a little lofty for a musician whose career goal is a chair in an orchestra, but for other students, such as 18-year-old Katya Richardson, the emphasis on self-direction feels less foreign.
Richardson began playing piano at age eight, but soon she discovered that "playing notes that weren’t on the page was way more fun." So she decided to become a composer.
Still, she had never made up music with other people before — let alone people who aren’t musicians. But part of the show involved a collaboration with the YoungArts filmmakers.
Said Richardson: "We had a series of two-minute segments from each of the film students. We got into groups and viewed the films. We decided on who would play on what films, what instrumentation would be needed, and what style."
During the screenings, the musicians watched each other as closely as they watched the films, waiting for cues to pieces they’d pulled together just days before.
Perhaps most unconventional of all, Roumain had his students improvise the show’s finale just hours before the performance.
Aubree Oliverson reported that she and her peers were "kind of worried. We didn't know what was going to happen. So Daniel decided to lead us using two chords, only two chords, on an arrangement of 'Amazing Grace.' And he would point to the people he wanted to be playing at that moment. And he would give signals for which chord to play. So he just created this arrangement out of thin air. And it actually sounds pretty good. I've never seen anything come together that quickly."
YoungArts Los Angeles lasted only a few days, but Roumain hopes the experience will live on for much longer. He explained: "By giving them full license, and really only guiding the process of their own self-discovery, I'm giving them a different perspective to consider. And that's something hopefully they can carry with them for the rest of their lives."
After the show, the students packed up, met their parents, and drove home to get ready for school the next day.
And after that? They’ll have to make it up as they go along.
Police drummer Stewart Copeland revives 1925 'Ben-Hur' with a 'big ass orchestra'
While Stewart Copeland may be best known as the guy playing percussion behind Sting in The Police, his music talents go far beyond the eighties supergroup. For his latest project he dug the 1925 silent film “Ben-Hur" out of cold storage at Warner Bros. so he could compose music to it. Copeland performs his score live with a huge orchestra while the movie screens behind the musicians.
The multi-instrumentalist recently performed the score live with the Pacific Symphony at the Valley Performing Arts Center in Northridge in a KPCC In Person event that's part of the downSTAGE series.*
The Frame's John Horn spoke with Copeland at the event. The conversation began with Copeland explaining that the origin of this idea didn’t include the movie at all. He was hired to write the music for a "Ben-Hur" arena show with actors, horses, chariots...the works.
This mad German impresario decided to put the show on in arenas like a tractor pull. They filled the arena with dirt and they did the whole story. [The chariot races] and also the story, the love interest, the whole story. And it was acted in Latin and Aramaic and then in every different country in Europe they played in they would have a narrator of that language.
And when it opened in the O2 arena in London, they couldn’t get Sean Connery, so they got me... And the best part about that was I got to come out on a horse. And all the narration was pre-recorded, but the horse learns the show. And as I finish my opening monologue, as it were, he knows, that horse has now learned that that scrim is going to come down and 400 Ukrainians are going to come running out of that cage and set up Jerusalem in a twinkling -- and horses don’t like that.
What was the state of the print of this film and where did you find it and what work needed to be done?
Well, I need to do a shout out to Derek Power, my manager, who spent two years tracking [it] down. You know, we knew it was at Warner Bros. somewhere. Somewhere on the campus there there’s somebody who’s responsible for this movie. It took awhile to figure out which division that is and when we did, they actually kind of got on board. And I went up to a department at Universal where they handle these ancient classic films. And very rarely does anyone darken their door. And as soon as I walked in and started talking about it they really livened up. And when we got it all figured out they went down to the vault, pulled out this 90-year-old print. It took them days to defrost it. It was frozen -- cryogenics. And so they defrosted it and we telecined it. And the last time the old lady had been out of her cans was in the ‘60s when they shot it to video. The print that we got, it was very dirty and very scratchy and I had to clean a lot of frames... And I get no credit for that because the best thing is that you don’t see it.
What does the orchestration look like?
It’s a classic big ass orchestra. I think that’s what they call it in Italian. With a lot of percussion and trash cans. You can probably see the galvanized steel trash cans because I figured that modern snare drums were too anachronistic for Roman soldiers marching.
Is there a straight path from writing the score for Francis Ford Coppola’s “Rumble Fish” in 1983 to this score?
Yes there is, it was the afternoon that Mr. Coppola turned around and he hired me to wrote music, which is exactly what he does, he gets people completely from outside the world... So I had to invent how you do a film score and he was very happy. And it was all very arty and cool and different from what his father would have written. But at the show and tell one day he turns around and says, “You know what, this is all very hip and everything, but I need strings. I need some strings here.” ...[And I said] “Yep, Francis I got that. You know I was thinking that, we need strings.” And so I hired some string players and it was in that session with the string players that I discovered the value of the music on the page... Tonight, you’re going to hear this orchestra. They played the score down once and we’re ready for the show tonight. And as I told the guys this afternoon: “Don’t try that with a rock band.”
If you missed the performance in Northridge, Copeland will perform his live score for “Ben-Hur” at Orange County’s Segerstrom Center for the Arts on Friday and Saturday night.
*DownSTAGE is a new ongoing KPCC series that travels to world class performance venues around Southern California for onstage conversations with performers before or after their shows.