Sylvester Stallone's 'Creed' story; Kanye's album release; Lianne La Havas

It was around 2011-2012, [when] I went to film school. I was getting ready to make “Fruitvale.” My father got really sick. My world kind of crashed. He had a neuromuscular condition, so he was becoming weaker. In the process he was struggling mentally. I got this idea about telling a story about it. I thought, What if this happened to my father’s hero, to Rocky? That’s kind of when I came up with the idea of the movie.

I was forewarned that there was a new kid in town. He was very inexperienced and he was a USC student, but he had a pitch on "Creed." I'm [thinking], OK, obviously he just wants to take Creed and run with it. I said, "OK, send him over. I'll be obliging, no problem." So he comes over to the office. And he's nothing like I imagined. He's physical, he's like an athlete — buoyant, exuberant. And he keeps pitching. And he goes on and on and on. I say, "Yes, that's cool." And then [Coogler says], Rocky comes down with this horrible, fatal disease. I say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa! How did I get into this gig?" I [said], "No, this is not going to work."



I ask him, "What have you done?" He says, "Well, nothing. But I'm working on this thing called 'Fruitvale Station.'" I [said], "Well, good luck with it." I called my agent and said, "Why would you do that? I'm so lucky with the last Rocky Balboa that it ended on an up note. I just never wanted to disrupt that again."

End of story. Then a year and a half passes. He does this movie in 20 days, "Fruitvale Station." He wins Cannes — this award, that award. Now he's walking in armed with awards. And he starts again. I say, "Does [Rocky] still get sick?" He says "Yes! He does! Because this thing is based on my father — he was sick, he was misdiagnosed, and Rocky kind of typifies what I went through with my father, because he watched 'Rocky' every day. Somehow he thought that was very uplifting, maybe somehow psychically medicinal." And I [said], "I understand. I understand you have this obligation with your father and all, but why do I have to get sick?" 



And he [says], "Because you're Rocky and that's the whole point — that Rocky is in the fight of his life."



I [say], "Can't it be Burt Young? Can't he get sick? Or how about a neighbor? They come down with this rare ailment, and Rocky helps the neighbor?"

I think it's a little bit of each. But, primarily, I didn't think the audience wants to see sick Rocky. And I mean, sick, weak, nonphysical, non-boxing Rocky. So I passed again. And my agent was mortified. He said, 'Oh my, Sly. He's going to be a young important director. Let's try it. Today you have to do something really, truly uncharacteristic. You have to break the mold a little bit." 



So then I explained it to my wife. I say, "I'm not doing it." She says, "Of course you won't, because you're a coward." I [said], "Excuse me? A little blunt, isn't it? Can we work up to that word a little bit, like maybe [I'm] fearful or nervous? She said, "You don't want to try something you could fail at." I [said], "Believe me, I failed at a lot of things. But I don't want to fail at Rocky."



She says, "If you want to take this to another level, if you really want to be an actor, this is the fight — the fight for survival, to keep your mortal soul alive. Everyone's going through this battle. You don't have to be a boxer to identify with it." I [thought], You know what? God, she's right again. And that's when I committed to it. From that point on, I never looked back.

Right. And I didn't know if I could break that pattern. So I sought help. I went to this acting coach. Her name was Ivanna Chubbuck. And she just broke me down. It's almost as though certain acting habits become calcified. And before you know it, you're like a piano player with one finger. You keep hitting that same note over and over again. 

My God. Probably college.

It is. Because she right away got into really subliminal, exploratory, personal chambers that I wanted to keep closed, like my son's death. I said, "I really don't want to go there. I really don't want to talk about that." She said, "But that's what needs to come out. You need to express that. This is what this character is dealing with. That kind of loss. And that kind of grief ... It's just about you, purging, coming to terms." 



So it was very cathartic, to say the least. It destroyed me for a while. But I think it cleared the way for approaching acting now on a much more visceral, emotional level than I had, maybe ever.

We were in the ring. It's where Rocky is working with the catch mitts and getting punched in the stomach a little bit, even though he's wearing padding, by Michael [B. Jordan]. Rocky says, "Let's take a break." He goes over and he throws up. And for the first time, his legs buckle. And Rocky can't even stand up. All the characters that I've played, I've never had a weak character who literally was stunned by how his body betrayed him — the fear. And so I found myself, in the role — I'm apologizing to him, Rocky's apologizing for being sick. For a guy that's so prideful, he's sorry to be a burden on anyone. 



And that scene got very, very heavy between myself and Michael. It got into really deep moments. Hysteria. It kept building and building. The director cut out at a certain point because he was going through some stuff, too. Michael, with his parents. And this thing was just so . . . so soul-wrenching. So hard. We were just purging personal grief that the audience would have never got. But that was the beginning. I said, "Wow, I never experienced anything like this." It felt good and bad at the same time. 

Yes. [Laughter.] Actually, yeah, I am. I think the more you go through, the better your repertoire of emotions increases. And I realized that there's also been a lot of vanity in action characters. That's usually part and parcel. You're supposed to be somewhat of a physical specimen. So, vanity and narcissism, or whatever you want to call it, creeps in, whether you're aware of it or not. And this is what they'd call a complete non-physical role. A non-physical hero. Someone who is completely helpless in the onslaught of life and health and disease, whatever. He's just a mortal guy. Matter of fact, Rocky is a former champion who lives among ghosts. His wife and brother-in-law. Apollo. Everyone has left him. It was quite a revelation.

I do. I do. I can't point the finger at anyone because I'm not part of that committee. But I thought Ryan was just absolutely magnificent, brilliant, fearless, brave — and the reason I'm there. I wouldn't have been nominated without him. He provided the format and, I want to say, the formula. He provided the scenario for Rocky to go through this life-and-death situation. Michael B. Jordan — he's one of these actors that when you look into his eyes, you can see snatches of his soul, little glimpses. So he makes you better. And I thought, My God, what they both went through. And I saw the preparation. We're talking two-and-a-half years. I was a little stunned, to tell you the truth. 



And I called Ryan. I said, "I'm sorry. I don't know exactly how to express myself. If you don't want me to go, I won't go."

Yeah.

I wouldn't call it a boycott. I mean, I really am proud to be nominated. It's extraordinary. But I wanted to hear what his opinion was.



He [says], "You'd do that?" I said, "I'm talking to you, aren't I?" And he said, "Sly, you earned it man. You were good. Go there and represent us." He's such a sweet guy. And I [said], "OK. I'll do my best."

I think that it all happened sort of for a reason and it built a kind of a climax. Just like the very fact that I am so incredibly honored to be nominated by the Academy. And [winning] at the Golden Globes. It was just absolutely astounding. And that Ryan and Michael are all good with this. And in the end, I think it's all going to work out. I feel like I'm on this passenger plane being driven by some very, very talented people. I'm just trying to enjoy the view while it's here.

I absolutely think that this album represents a newfound confidence and a freedom in my music that perhaps I haven't discovered yet, which I guess has always been there, but you just have to go to the right place. It just has to be the right time for it to come out. 

I was on vacation in Jamaica with my lovely mom and while I was out there, I had the opportunity to work with a producer from Jamaica called Stephen McGregor who is most known for his dancehall productions. So I took two days out of my holiday and went to Kingston with mother and my two cousins, and I actually remember saying to Stephen, "Is it okay if my mom's here?" And he was like, "It's totally fine." 



He drove us all to the studio and I remember sitting down and he gave me a guitar and I remember feeling completely at home suddenly, and it was also the first time my mother had seen what I really do. The song that came to the forefront, which actually is about that confidence and freedom, is called "Midnight." 

I walked into the room the first day of the session and Stephen was playing a beat and it was insanely groovy, and then when the bed was made, I just started hearing what later went on to become the chorus melody. Then I looked at Stephen and he was pointing at me like, "Yeah, this is it! This is it!" 

I grew up in a completely Jamaican household and I just found myself always surrounded by aunties and I had a couple of cousins at the time. Now I have 13 first cousins, and that was my childhood. I grew up surrounded by Jamaicans, surrounded by the food but all of this in south London. So I ended up with this accent that I have, but that was my childhood, and in the song "Green & Gold," I tried to describe my childhood. 

That was all true in the lyric, it's all literal. There was a mirror in the hallway in my grandparents' house where you could see the mirror opposite in the room. So I remember the first time looking into mirrors that are opposite of each other and you see infinity, and also looking at my face thinking is that me or is that someone else?

When I went to Jamaica with my mom, I guess that allowed me to really look at my family and look at my life. You know, I was 24 at the time, becoming a woman and all I wanted to talk about what was within my heart. Then it turned out not to be so much my boyfriend. It was more of my mom and my dad and my cousins and stuff... and myself. 

The best word for it is "overwhelming." It was just an incredible spectacle on this epic scale, with huge platforms and models standing there and hundreds of extras on the floor, all while Kanye played his new album from a laptop at max volume. It wasn't a live performance — it was just a playback of Kanye's album. He stood there on the floor, with his laptop plugged into the arena's sound system, and played the album from start to finish.

I can say that it sounds fantastic when it's being played extremely loudly in an arena and you're sitting next to the Kardashian family. [laughs] I can't speak for how it will sound on headphones at home but, all kidding aside, it sounded great.



The production was as forward-thinking and exciting as we expect from Kanye. The lyrics were out there and provocative, at times great and at times dismaying, but always giving you something to think about. That's what Kanye does best. As for who Pablo is, if I had to guess I'd say he's comparing himself to the great Pablo Picasso, but it's hard to say.

Unexpectedly, the third or fourth song on the album is called "Famous," and this isn't verbatim, but he has this line where he says, "I sometimes think that Taylor and I could still have sex." And then he says, "I made that b**ch famous."



This got an audible gasp from the audience at Madison Square Garden because it's a shocking, provocative line. It's not a great line, either — it exhibits some of the unfortunate, sexist overtones that Kanye sometimes does, but he likes provoking people, and he certainly went there with that.

This is one of the most complicated questions surrounding Kanye West. Like a lot of talented artists — and that includes tons of my favorite rock musicians going back decades but also many of my favorite rappers — he's an incredible creative talent who also has this sexism and misogyny that's baked into his music. And it's hard to separate those things from what makes the music good. They're inseparable, wrapped around each other.



So it's something that every listener has to grapple with whenever there's a new Kanye West record. There are going to be moments that make you cringe, that are uncomfortable. But then there will be other moments that excite you and make your heart soar. Each listener has to reconcile those things on their own terms.