YNINOK-006 ~ Rene Perez Joglar
Thu, 4/15 1:36PM • 32:51
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
rene, diane, people, feel, write, helped, hater, writing, balance, started, difficult, music, ruben, happening, movies, understand, psychologist, matter, socially, therapy
SPEAKERS
Diane Guerrero, Rene Perez Joglar
Diane Guerrero 00:03
Just a head's up that we are not clinical experts and, if you need professional support, there will be some links and resources listed in the podcast description. I remember the first time I met Rene. You may know him as a Residente, the Puerto Rican rapper, artist and filmmaker, winner of 27 Latin Grammys and four (4) U.S. Grammys. He was a part of Calle Trece (13), an alternative hip hop, rap and reggaeton group. But, it's really hard to put a label on them, since they are so much more. I love his music and, when I first discovered him, I was in such awe of him, his passion for social justice, and him just being unapologetic. And I just... I've always thought that he has been such a great advocate for our community, and his focus and dedication is something to be admired. That was his single, Atravete-Te-Te. Uhm, I love this song so much. It was how I discovered Calle Trece (13) and, I'm sure if Rene hears this, he'll think I'm corny. But this track is so amazing, because it was so uplifting, because it was so apropiado, you know. So like, you know, the first line is literally like, 'come out of the closet and f***in dare, dare to be yourself, dare to dream, dare to f***ing have fun and dance'. And you know, everything that he says in this song was everything that I wanted to be. And it was so validating for me to see someone with such a similar background moving in this world in their own terms. And it is what I longed to do. His art felt real. And since I've met Rene, he has been so generous and supportive through sharing his collaborative energy, and his talent, and his gift with, not just me, but with the world. And it was clear to me when we first met up how generous he was because he was sitting next to the Oscar Award winning director, Alejandro Inarritu. And he invited me to sit and have dinner with them. Casual, like Rene would.
Rene Perez Joglar 02:30
Yeah, that day I was talking with, with Alejandro, every now and then I meet with him because he's kind of like... he doesn't know it, or maybe he do, but he's kind of like a mentor to me. And I tried to ask questions all the time. And actually, I started to, to do it later, you know, after we met. Like, because we met back in the days and... and then I never asked him about anything related to movies or film. And he was the one asking me questions about music all the time. And I remember that I really wanted to ask him questions but, every time that we went to dinner or something, I ended up answering questions about music instead of me understanding how, how he works. And I remember we met also in Amsterdam with Chivo, the DP, and whiskey, and him and... and I was like, "Oh, this is perfect. Now I'm gonna do all the questions", and it was the opposite; both of them asking me, like, about stage, and about the writing process and everything. And I was happy but, at the same time, I was like, oh, man, I really wanted to ask them so many questions. [Diane: Yeah.] So anyways...
Diane Guerrero 03:51
I remember... I remember when I... when I also asked you about music, and you immediately were like, "No. That... I mean, that's something that I do, but I'm really interested in directing. And this is my passion. And this is what I'm working on right now." Uhm, which makes so much sense to me. And then that's why I'm just so interested in your work as a director, because you've always been such an artist that doesn't shy away from those challenges or like the human experience. Throughout this interview, I tried to get Rene to talk about his mental health because this is a mental health podcast. But with Rene, he quickly let me know that his art speaks for itself. And it's clear that he draws his strength from it without shying away from his pain. More in a minute. Rene is a f***ing genius, and I wanted to know where that genius came from.
Rene Perez Joglar 05:09
It's not that I was feeling bad all the time, you know, my family loved me, but I know that... yet, I felt less. Also I saw my grades. Like, they were awful. And I was, like, they kicked me out of school like five times. And I went to psychologist and I... they... at first, they didn't know that I have ADHD, so my dad... so... but would just, you know, hitting me in the head, like, "stop", because I was all the time like this, you know, in the... in the f***ing table while we were eating. And my dad is brilliant, but it's like, at that time, you didn't have that. So, let's solve the problem. So then all of this situation. I think that, that helped me out at the end and my necessity of feeling maybe useful, and maybe making my family proud. You know, like, my dad proud of me. And I remember my first drawings because it was a different career, like, a different way that I was taking because everyone else was... actually my, my sister was into acting, but the other one was... is a lawyer, and the other one is an architect. So, it was like I was my... that feeling proud of the drawings, you know, was kind of like a first thing, and my mom too by... Oh, so I'm doing it good. And, I don't know. That... I think my trying to make my family proud helped me out. And trying to find something to do with my life also helped me out. I think necessity is the mother of all of the inventions. You know, my first thing was college. Like, oh, I want to study at SCAD. I want to... I'm gonna get that fellowship. And, and that was the first thing, and then I kept doing things like that inside college. Oh, I want to do... I have this idea. No, but that's impossible. Yeah, and I did it. And then I kept going doing stuff. Oh, I want to do my... my master project is going to be a short film or is going to be a video installation... is going to... yeah, but, man, for that you have to go into film because you're in animation. So you know, all the time they put your things. [Diane: Yeah.] And you just have to say okay, but... so I did it. With rap, my mom, "Oh, yeah, no. That's impossible, Rene." No, madre, you... in a year, callate [shut up], it was done. You know, it's so... it's just a matter of believing and doing it. And, of course, you have to be good. In order to be good, you have to know that you have to practice. I think that from all of my family, it's not that I'm the dumbest and my brother. [laughter] I always bring my brother the hater to Gabriel because it's... we're kind of like the same. Like, we had the same struggle in school. And all of my sisters and brothers, they had good grades. You know, my sisters, they were, like, brilliant, like, three of them. They were like... one was two years in front. That's what you say? Like, like... She, like, skipped? She skipped two years? Yeah. So, it was like she went to college when she was 15 or 16. [Diane: Okay.] You know, like, you know, genius. [Diane: A genius.] Yeah, like, like that. So imagine. And we were like, f***ed up in school, my brother and me like, super, like, bad grades. I think that the professors, teachers, they didn't understand us maybe, or I didn't understand them for sure. I was, like, thinking about other stuff. So, I think that I was... eh, how do you say it -- subestimar, underesti___?
Diane Guerrero 08:45
Underestimated
Rene Perez Joglar 08:46
Underestimated most of the time. I think that maybe, not my family, but without knowing it, they were doing it a little bit, you know? [Diane: Claro (of course).] Like, yeah, it's not gonna happen, you know, with Rene and Gabriel. So maybe because I was underestimated, I practiced more. And that's what I do all the time since I'm a kid. So, when I write, I don't write whatever I write first and that's it, and this is great. No, I really, not only practice and write every day, but also I don't stop 'til I think it's perfect for me. And maybe it's because of that complex that I brought from my childhood. That at the end, you know, it ended up helping me out, you know, to make it better.
Diane Guerrero 09:34
What I love about Rene is the revolutionary love and spirit that is expressed through his art.
Rene Perez Joglar 09:41
Well, it's something that comes. It's organic. You know, it's something that I've... that as a human being and as a Puerto Rican, I feel the need to say something with my work, you know. But, it's not something that, that I feel obligated to it's just that I just say it because that's the way I am. And, if I wasn't Residente, I would be doing the same, but maybe without a... without a crowd. But for me, it's a, it's a responsibility that I have as a human being. Every human being has a responsibility of, of being aware of what's happening in their society, to be socially conscious. And for me, what is difficult is how I make that in a way that the industry can see it as a business for them. And because otherwise, it's very difficult, you know. And you have to see how you... you manage to balance and to say all of the things that you want to say in a way that first, people can understand it, because if you go too intellectual maybe, or too poetic, you... you get... you disconnect with the crowd. So, it's very difficult to say something that has value and socially speaking, and... and that it's accessible. And also that... that you can earn a budget to keep going. You know? At the beginning for me was very difficult because I was too passionate. I'm still passionate, but I didn't have that balance. So I was like, you know, throwing s**t to everyone, and to the... even to my team. You know, I didn't get like... if I felt that, that something was wrong and it wasn't honest, I was, like, "what the f**k", and I... and I said it on stage and I didn't care. In a way it was good because it gave me, you know, I learned a lot also. With what I represented, it gave me kind of like... I don't want to call it brand because it's bad. But, it's kind of like [Diane: Like an edge.]. Yeah, like an edge that, later on, I was able to balance a little bit. I still have like... I have all the edge, and for some people, it's like, when I go to meetings, they're like a little scared, you know? [Diane laughs] And it's like, "no, it's cool, man. You know, everything's nice." I was never, like, against everything. It's just that I didn't like the dishonesy that I felt sometimes in the music industry and also around me in different situations, and also social issues that I lived. Like, every time that I went to a country and I, you know, the crowd, the people, the fans, they started to tell me what was happening there, and I was getting mad. And of course, I... it was like a process. They told me about the things that were happening. Then, with my brother, we did research, and then we... we realize, man, we have to talk about this. And then we started to talk about that. And then you know, people started to keep sending us things. And, you know, I imagine in eight years of that your head is going to explode because of all of the information. And so you're already very sensitive about whatever. So, if someone says something that it's kind of like, not good, you already have all this information in your head and you go all the way from full power against you know, so...
Diane Guerrero 13:21
How do you quiet the noise?
Rene Perez Joglar 13:24
Well, it was several things. As I told you, it's a learning process. Like, 70% of the things that I said... Like, I'm very impulsive because I'm ADHD and I'm, like, very hyperactive and I say whatever I have in my head right away. And then I say, "oh, s**t!" You know? But, you know, at that time, 70% of the things that I was saying they were amazing, but the other 30, they were f***ed up. You know, like, it was f***ed up for me. So, so I had to figure it out myself. Little by little, you know, learning and going into trouble. Like, being in trouble with, with several people. You know, sometimes the people, and your fans and, and maybe not fans, you know, haters too, they... they fire you, you know, they say things. Eh, because... because now the social media is huge. At that time it was starting, but I didn't know how to manage social media yet. You know, I was starting to understand, oh, I have haters. I didn't know. [Diane laughing] You know, like, before everything was great because you just go to the concert, dnd you see the people in the concert, and those are your fans. The haters doesn't get near you. But when Twitter started, like I was like, "Oh, so I have people? Oh, I didn't know that." And so, you know, in relation with social issues, like, you have people like saying stuff also all the time to you in a good way. You're like, you know, bah bah bah, bah bah. And I was doing a lot of things because of myself and because of the people were saying to me, like, in person, but also, I was connected with social media on... and what the people were saying socially speaking to me too. And I was... I was, with so much pressure, you know, over me that later on I realized that these people that are saying a lot of things to me on... or maybe judging me, they wouldn't do what I'm doing. So, then I started to... to balance and to understand that maybe, in my record label, maybe there are people that are good people that they wanna really make great music, and wanna make a statement, and make... send a message, a social message, message too. So, I started to... come se dice (how do you say), like, to recognize or to identify the people that maybe they can be part of my clan, you know, and part of my, my gang. And that's how I started to make a balance, identifying the [Diane: Community?] No, it's identifying the people inside the industry that, that I thought that they were going to be like me also because, at first, I was at war--everything! And then I started to do that. And guess what? The Latinoamerica video was paid with money from our leaders. It wasn't the people that they were saying, Oh, you have to do this socially, or you have to move and do this. It wasn't the people that do a lot of social work. No, it was by that. So, that's when I say, "Okay, you know what? Adidas no me usa, yo estoy usando Adidas."and that... that I created that slogan: Adidas doesn't use me--I use Adidas. The thing is that, for me, it was... okay, it's a matter of learning how to use everything that's... that... you know, that... that you can use in order to put a message out. You know?
Diane Guerrero 17:03
You know, a lot of the time I feel frustrated, trying to find the right balance of maintaining my integrity, while also making it possible for my work to actually be seen. How do you get your message across while staying true to yourself?
Rene Perez Joglar 17:20
Yeah, it was like that. And I remember this... I, I said in one song once, 'my label is not Sony, my label is the people', like, in one of the phrases. And the Sony CEO responded, and some of those people who work at Sony. And it was a nice comeback, and he was... and he's a friend. And I was, like, "Yeah, it's true." And that's how, little by little, I started to learn how to work with the people that really want to make things better. And it don't matter where they are, but... or where they work because I know that they're kind of infiltrated in a way. And also that they... yeah, they paying the bills and helping their families. And that was the idea all the time. The idea was to maintain a balance, but sometimes you can get lost. And that's what happened to me. I didn't got lost, but I was in a moment that... it was difficult for me because I was representing a lot of things. And also the newspapers, they were putting, like, titles to me that I never thought that I really deserved. But they were doing that and, and talking to me as a revolutionary guy. And I'm like, "No, no. I'm not that. I'm just a rapper, and I'm doing this."
Diane Guerrero 18:44
More with Rene after this. What inspires you creatively?
Rene Perez Joglar 18:56
The best time is when you feel that you really wanna make something. You know, I have my, my moments during the day that I can tell you. It's like... It's like when you go hunting a deer and you're waiting for... you can be waiting the whole day but, once the deer is there, you have to catch the deer. Otherwise, if you move for a second, that deer is gonna to go away and then it's gonna take you another day to find it. And it's the same way. Like, when you feel that energy that you really want to write something, do it because it doesn't matter if it's at 5:00 in the morning 12:00 at night. You just have to sit down and write and do whatever you, you want to do at that moment because, maybe, an hour later you're not going to have that energy, and when you have that energy is when the creative process runs better. You know, it's... it goes better for you. So that's what I, what I do. But I work, usually, during the night. I really like during the night because I... during the day, I'm doing this, I'm on calls, I'm working with, you know, with my son, I'm playing. And during the night, everything is silent. Eh, and when I say night, it's like from 11:00 to 4:00 a.m. You know, a lot of people are, like, sleeping. So, I use that moment. I used to also use in the morning. Like very early in the morning. When Milo was born, I needed to change my schedule. So I was like, okay, so I'm gonna wake up at six. For me, that's super in the morning. And I was doing everything early, and it was good. You know? It was good too. But when I feel more... I don't know... that I am drinking the beer or, or a little bit of rum and I'm writing, and more nostalgic, it's like during the night. And on flights to... long flights on the plane. I like to do that too.
Diane Guerrero 21:08
What... do you have to be, like, in a certain state? Like, and I'm asking more? Because I wonder do you, do you have like any rituals? I'm interested because I... I'm finding, like, this whole question about making art and suffering, right. And like, how, in your mental state, do you feel the most creative? Are you in the best time of your life now that you are mentally kind of [Rene: Yeah, I understand. Like, I...] understanding of yourself? Or?
Rene Perez Joglar 21:43
I don't know. Like, like, I also spoke with Ruben because I talk to him a lot. It's like, you know, Ruben is in music and he narrates on film. [chuckles] So I... those are my mentors for me, you know. And, and he told me [Diane: They're good mentors.] Yeah, yeah, they're great. And, he... Ruben told me that, when he writes better is when he's mad. And I apply that several times and it worked because that energy, it gives you like a drive that helps you out. You know? Anything that stimulates your brain in a certain way, even sexually--everything. Like, it's about stimulating your brain and using that stimulation to write. You know? I do that. Eh, I like to see pictures. I like to see movies also in between writing. I listen to music. Right, right now I'm listening to music while I'm writing the movie. I think that when you're sad, anything that you're feeling is going to help. Like, when you're sad, you're going to write in a certain way. And when you're [Diane: Right.] angry, you're gonna write in a certain way, and everything helps. And when you're happy... all of the emotions are going to help. [Diane: Right.] Yeah, the important thing is to write. Like, some people, they stay, and they want to write, and they make a lot of research, and they start reading a lot. And it's great to read but, if you want to be a writer, you have to write. You know? If you want to be... you know, I'm not... I'm not considering myself a writer that... nobody's that. But in music, like, some people listen to a lot of music. And it's like, man, you just have to start putting words there. And even if you don't want to write, you just start typing. You just... you have to start typing some words and start writing some stuff, and you're gonna get somewhere. You know? But, you have to write.
Diane Guerrero 23:42
Do you write every day? Is that part of, like, is that [Rene: Every day.] part of what... Yeah.
Rene Perez Joglar 23:46
Every day I write, it's like a practice. For me, I write, it could be an idea for a commercial for my beer, or it could be for the movie, or it could be a song, but every day I write, there is no day that I don't write. For real. I don't remember the last day that I didn't write. Maybe... even in vacation, I'm writing punch lines on the phone. You know, like, it's like... because it's kind of like an exercise. It's like eating for me, you know? You have to eat every day. So, it's the same. It's making so much sense to me that you're so consistent with with your work, and yet so still so evolving, or an ever evolving? How does, how do you stay evolving? You're challenging yourself, like, you have to challenge yourself, you have to try to like, I usually don't like the first thing that I do. You know, so I keep challenging myself in order to make whatever I did better. It's like that like and that that's how you evolve because you start like trying to do something better than the last thing that you did. Also, it's nice to have a nice team around you, to have that. And I have my brother Gabriel and he helped me out so much because he's, he's a hater. [laughter] And he said... yeah, he's the best hater ever and, and... but he's a fan too. You know, he's a fan and a hater. And he takes my, my... you know what I write sometimes, and I say, "Bro, like, this sucks like this." Like, he pushed me more. And sometimes I have to find the limits, you know? And I have to say, "Okay, I know, it's good." You know? And even though, most of the time... actually, 98% of the time it's, it's good because also he approved it. But I never... if I put something out that he didn't approve, like, I'm going to feel... I'm going to feel guilty later on. [Diane: Right.] So I, I really tried to convince him sometimes, you know, "Bro, but this one..." And sometimes I do, you know, I say... or sometimes he gave me, like, a really... so much hating and later on he calls me back, like, "Man, it's, it's fine. [Diane laughs] Like, I was... maybe I was too exaggerated, you know, it's, it's okay." But to have someone like that, it's perfect [Diane: Yeah.] because sometimes you lose track. At first, it's easy because you're starting. So you have that, but there is a moment when you're already known and people already gonna like stuff that you're gonna put out that you can rely on that and not do too much. You know? [Diane: Right.] So, that's the way to evolve to have a hater on the team and also to, to try to challenge yourself every time. You know?
Diane Guerrero 26:41
What about personally? Like, uhm... Like, when you're maybe having a difficult time understanding something about yourself. Do you see someone professionally? Like, are you... do you do therapy? Is there anyone that you... that you talk to that's... where it's a professional?
Rene Perez Joglar 26:57
Well, I haven't done it in a while. Like... like I had... I had a psychologist and she was helping me. You know, I started out... I didn't want to go to a psychologist because I thought that I was like, you know, that I can deal with my stuff. I started out with a... with a psychologist. She was a... how do you say it? Like, like for relationships? I started with...
Diane Guerrero 27:24
Oh, like a couple... like a couples therapist?
Rene Perez Joglar 27:26
Yeah, like, I started out like that. Otherwise, I wouldn't go. Like, I was like, "I don't need this sh*t." And I went because of that. "Oh, let's, let's go for the couple and whatever. [chuckles] And then, and then I started to... I went once by myself, and she was very helpful, but she... she didn't help me out with my writing or anything, it was more about stage, you know, like, like, the things that I was saying at that time, and how like putting myself in danger too much. Because... you know, we got shot in Venezuela going to the airport once, you know. Things like that. I was all the time receiving death threats. You know, it's not the same as here. You know, and though you wait for the police but, after that, you know, they have the headphones, everything's fine. Like over there, it's like Victor Jara. They cut his hands [Diane: Right.] because they believed he was a communist. And, you know, like... it's, it's tough. Like, when you say things in Latin America. So, I was saying stuff and I was getting death threats all the time. And she was trying to help me out with the way I was saying things that maybe I can say the same thing without putting myself in danger. So, she helped me out with that, and that's when I used her. Eh, for my writing, I've never used anyone. You know, I... for, for my writing. [Diane: Right.] So....
Diane Guerrero 28:55
I love that. I wish I had that. I mean... I mean, and the thing is I do. I do have ADD. Believe me, I can't concentrate worth a s**t. But then again, I absolutely let those ideas of like people don't like me, or that they don't like my work, or that I'm, you know, this idea that I have to please folks, sort of... they, they infiltrate me even with the ADD and and then so I'm just completely f***ed. Anyway, not... but since that's... and this, and this is why I need the therapy so that I can [Rene: yeah, yeah, yeah] drown out all the things that don't matter. Rene, as a Latinx man, did you ever consider doing therapy? Culturally, did you ever feel the pressure of machismo or like you weren't able to ask for help ever?
Rene Perez Joglar 29:43
No, I really want... like, actually, I am waiting for something to... to get done to start again. Maybe, but I... it's not because of a machismo thing that I don't wanna... I don't want that help. It's just that... like, I really feel sure about what I'm doing. Like I, I have that... I don't know, like people told me Oh, you can like, oh, you're gonna make movies now? Yeah, you know, it's like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. And I know I'm gonna go and I'm gonna... I'm gonna kill it. And that's my spirit, and that's what I feel and... and that's what I always did since the beginning. I think that once you feel that way, it's very difficult to go back. You know? [Diane: Mmmhm] To... and to feel insecure. Like, once you break that barrier and... and I, I was lucky to to break that barrier or that... or feeling that way early in my life.
Diane Guerrero 30:45
This has been an incredible conversation, Rene. I thank you so much for coming on with me and, and doing this little experiment.
Rene Perez Joglar 30:52
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. So I see you... I hope to see you soon.
Diane Guerrero 30:57
I hope to see you soon. Alright, honey. Thank you.
Rene Perez Joglar 30:59
Gracias!
Diane Guerrero 31:15
Yeah, No, I'm Not Okay is a production of Laist Studios. Remember to rate and review our show. I just found out that it helps other people find it. So if you like it, share it with your friends. The more people we can get to have conversations about mental health the better. If you've got a story you want to share about how you deal with mental health issues, send it my way. Record it on your phone's voice memo app and email it to Yeahno@laiststudios.com, and be sure to subscribe to our newsletter to get the latest episodes with a note from me, recommendations from our listeners and our team, and listener stories. Sign up at laist.com/newsletters. Jessica Pilot is our talent manager and producer. Our executive producers our Leo G. and me, Diane Guerrero. Web design by Andy Cheatwood and the digital and marketing teams at Southern California Public Radio. Thanks to the team at Laist Studios, including Taylor Coffman, Kristin Hayford, Kristen Muller, Michael Consentino, Robert Jo, Mildred Langford and Leo G. And a special thanks to Brian Crawford. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting a private corporation funded by the American people. Additional support comes from the Angel Foundation, supporting transformational leaders and by the California Healthcare Foundation, dedicated to improving the mental health care system for all Californians.
