YNINOK-008 ~ Byron Bowers
Mon, 4/26 10:23AM • 30:07
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
diane, people, byron, life, laughs, growing, comedy, process, audience, hear, accept, trust, learned, person, jokes, communities, relatable, art, therapy, resistance
SPEAKERS
Diane Guerrero, Byron Bowers
Diane Guerrero 00:00
Just a head's up that we are not clinical experts. And if you need professional help, there will be some links and resources listed in the podcast description, as well as in our newsletter, which you can sign up to receive at laist.com/newsletters. Using art as therapy has taught me that process can be an honest reflection of my thoughts. As I'm expressing my thoughts and feelings, I'm actually seeing, and sometimes for the first time, what those thoughts and feelings look like, and how they reflect my comfort or discomfort with the truth. Through art, whether it's a character I'm developing, or a painting, or a podcast, I get to use my process as a way to see what I'm going through from different perspectives. Sometimes I don't like what I see but, regardless, I learned more about myself through relying on the process. In a pretty well known book on art and process called, 'The War of Art', the author talks about resistance as the main thing that's blocking us from moving through our creativity. So now when I sense resistance, whether it's avoidance or making an excuse, or straight up arguing with myself about whether what I'm doing is worth anything; when I sense that self doubt, I know that I need to trust the process, because I'm about to break through to something that's really powerful and meaningful. And look, initially, all this was really hard for me to do, and it's still really hard for me to do -- trusting my process, leaning into resistance and believing that I could learn something through exposing my vulnerability in my art. It was much easier for me to hold on to that familiar pain than to do anything with it. I'm not enough. It's not good enough. I'm not talented enough. I'm not this enough. I used to get caught up in believing that narrative that I created in my head, and it's a scary feeling hearing those dark thoughts creep in and break my sense of self. Eventually, it catches up to you, and you know you have to let it go and you have to trust and this is something that you have to do every single time. It's not easy, and it's hard work, and I'm still doing it. Byron Bowers' work on stage and on screen has really moved me. I was moved by his honesty in Honey Boy and, in watching his stand up, I felt like I grew up with him. You know what I'm saying? Do you get what I'm saying when I say I felt like I grew up with him. Like, maybe we went to grade school together, and all of a sudden we were grownups, and now we were having a conversation. Through his stand up, I learned about his paranoid schizophrenic father, which is something that I've never heard anybody talk about. And, in this conversation, we look at how he has learned to see some of his toughest moments, some of his biggest challenges, and see them as gifts, which has certainly offered me some new perspective, certainly about how I've grown up and... and maybe looking at my challenges and the s**t that's happened in my life as gifts, which I guess they are. Byron, I just want to start off by telling you that watching your comedy and hearing about your lived experience is such an inspiration. It's been really nice to see you doing your thing.
Byron Bowers 04:12
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's been a grind. It's been one of those up and down experiences, but I've been able to grow through this art form.
Diane Guerrero 04:23
What kind of experience do you want your audience to have when you're on stage?
Byron Bowers 04:27
Ultimately, experience life. You know, the whole range--the ups, the downs, you know, of life and have a fulfillment. Some people d**n near cry, some people laugh, some people reflect on their own life. It's like a little acid true for like an hour. You know what I mean? If you've ever done a hallucinogen, within an hour, you can live like 100 years and experiences like thousands of years of life in one hour. [Diane: Hmm] So, I definitely want that version of it.
Diane Guerrero 05:00
What made you pursue a career in comedy?
Byron Bowers 05:03
Awh, just people telling me that I probably could do it and be good at it. 'Cause I was just hanging out trying to figure things out. A lot of failure went into this. You know? Even with acting, there's, like, people like, "Man, you're probably good at this thing", and then you... and then you do it and then the next thing comes, and then, you know, it's definitely like, a unsureness of all of it.
Diane Guerrero 05:27
Right.
Byron Bowers 05:28
Uhm, but yes, it's... that's the community of people saying I should do it. And then I, I failed at it, but then I wanted to do it. And I just kept failing at it, you know, until I got some... some sort of success, or being able to book a show or something like that. You kn`ow?
Diane Guerrero 05:46
How would you define your style of comedy?
Byron Bowers 05:49
I don't know. That's just me. I remember when I had prepared for that show. I was... I was shooting something and I landed in LA to film and I'm trying to remember all the beats to this joke, the story. And then, instinctively, you know, I follow my gut. Like, I call... you know, that's the universe, God, whatever you call it, or I'm just crazy. But, uh, it was just like, "F**k the jokes. You, you live this! [Diane: Right.] Just give 'em that." And I went into that with faith blindly, not knowing how the audience would take it, but while I'm on stage... And it comes across slow because I'm... I'm visually seeing everything as [Diane: Yeah.] I talk about it. So, I'm in the room but I'm not in the room, and every now and again, I check in with the room. [Diane: Yeah.] And I see people eyes glistening and watering over and stuff. But, I'm like, deep into this thing and then I didn't even have an ending for it. Then I came... it just came out. [Diane: Yeah.] And I was like, "oh, it worked out." That's another thing of like trusting your instincts--are you good. As far as style? I don't know, if I have a style. If I... if I knew the style, I would be rich right now {Diane laughs} 'cause I would exploit myself. You know what I mean?
Diane Guerrero 07:05
So, Byron, I know you have a ton of work coming out. I'm excited to see Concrete Cowboys, but when I first saw you was in Honey Boy. I honestly think that your performance was one of the most moving performances. And then, when I saw your stand up, like made so much sense to me. I know you worked with your partner, Alma Ha'rel on that film. How was that? How was that working with, with your partner on something like this?
Byron Bowers 07:30
Ah, it was interesting because I remember she told me something, and then I said something back, and she was like, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, I'm the Director. {Diane laughs} You don't say nothing back to me..." or whatever... doing that. I mean, in that instance, right? [Diane: Right.] And I was like, "Oh, yeah." 'Cause when we met, we would beef. We would get into it. And I'm like, "Yo, I mean, you must be used to talking to people, like, a certain way. I ain't that type of person." You know what I mean? And I had to realize, Oh, she's a Director so she's used to directing. So, I had to, like, get into that mode of being on set. But, she allowed me the freedom to be. Uhm, and we developed that char... that character was different before I booked the role and then she allowed me to put so much of my life into it, that this character could exist anywhere. So, once I was there, I was just able to just walk around set as this person. You know? [Diane: Mmhm] Or, you know, rehab as I called it. I was just there.
Diane Guerrero 08:35
Right. Do you find that really rewarding to work creatively with,` with your romantic partner in this way?
Byron Bowers 08:42
Uhm... I don't know, man. I think it can be very dangerous. {Diane laughs} You know, uhm, [Diane: Yeah.] but, all ego aside or whatever, yeah, I think it is rewarding to work with anybody like that, that you trust. Especially, somebody with trust issues. You know? Uhm, I try to work with people I trust. That set was so comforting. You know, I mean, like, people were crying on that set. You know, it could have been the dude who make the food, craft services. That's how therapeutic that set was. So I was able to see, like, a leader come in and really, like, lead a group of people and make a place comfortable enough for people to be free and be themselves. And I think it was a lot of children of addicts on that set. So, it was... it was a rewarding film for everybody.
Diane Guerrero 09:34
Is that why you connected to the film so much? To the script so much?
Byron Bowers 09:36
Yep, yep, yep. I read it late. I was working on my own project, a father/son project. And, as you know from my material, I do a lot of father/son stuff. So, that allowed me to, uh... once I read... once I read it, I was like, "Oh, I have to help tell this story." Because it's such a fascinating story to me and I think it's a story that needs to be told because of what's going on, you know, in society with guys now, and like where do some of these behaviors come from.
Diane Guerrero 10:08
More after the break. So Byron, my family has a history of mental illness and I'm still processing that through my work, and through therapy and, actually, through the show. How have you processed your father's mental illness?
Byron Bowers 10:37
I mean, I'm still processing it as we speak. I mean, it all goes back to the question you asked--what defines your style? I mean, I really don't know because I'm still processing everything. Like, I don't know what reality is. You know? Or what's real or what's not, 'cause when you... you know, the person who told you about certain things you don't know if it's based on truth. [Diane: Right.] Certain things about society. And then, you know, your paranoia could have been, you know, taught to you by a paranoid schizophrenic. [Diane: Right.] So, I have to process what's real, and what's not real and what's love. What is love? And, like, all these things. You know, I used to think these people might not have loved me, but maybe they did. But this is what love really is. So, like I said, yeah, it's a process. I'm still learning and I think I will be doing that forever. You know what I mean? 'Cause this... it shapes... it shapes your relationships or community, and all these things are really not, or don't know about, or might not trust as much.
Diane Guerrero 11:44
You mentioned, you struggle with trust issues.
Byron Bowers 11:47
Yeah, I think so. {Diane laughs} [Diane: Yeah.] Yeah. I don't even... I don't even trust to say yes or no. You know what I mean? [Diane: Yeah.] But yeah, it's definitely something there. You know what I mean? Abandonment and all of those things. You know? So, I mean, I guess I'm in a situation now, like a relationship and, it's like, a regular relationship. As close to regular that I'm... I'm probably gonna get, you know, 'cause I don't have anything to gauge it off of. That foundation changes everything.
Diane Guerrero 12:20
But you mentioned that, that you don't go to therapy.
Byron Bowers 12:23
No, I don't go to therapy.
Diane Guerrero 12:25
Why? Why is that?
Byron Bowers 12:26
I don't know. A part of me feels like if I go in the room, only one of us can leave the room. [Diane: Why?] 'Cause, if I talk... tell somebody these things, then it's two people that know these things, and... and, yeah, the other person can't exist. You know what I mean? {Byron chuckles}
Diane Guerrero 12:42
I hear that. But, but you feel more comfortable being on stage and sharing these things?
Byron Bowers 12:49
Yeah, I do. I actually do. It's weird.
Diane Guerrero 12:52
Is it... Is it just the... the intimacy part?
Byron Bowers 12:56
Uh, I think so. It could be. I never thought about it. You know... yeah, 'cause I think intimacy... I guess when I hear that word, when it gets that intimacy, I only think of, like, sexual experiences. You know, so maybe it could be that. I don't know. I don't... I haven't processed it yet. I'm not saying that therapy is out of the question. [Diane: Right.] I do have a therapy button. Like, if s**t get crazy, then I have to go handle this. You know what I mean? But, I've been able to manage so far and understand how to do certain things.
Diane Guerrero 13:32
Do you think people who have gone through f***ed up s**t are drawn to comedy?
Byron Bowers 13:38
Yeah, I call us degenerates. {Diane laughs} Uh, so yeah, I do think we have something. That's why I am in this realm. But it's a... it's a open, honest conversation around it. Even though you might not see it on stage but, in the green room, you know everybody's, you know, going through something or f***ed up in some way.
Diane Guerrero 13:59
Is that the most comfortable place that you feel like talking about your feelings just like with other comics, like, versus a therapist?
Byron Bowers 14:05
Ah, probably mostly your audience versus other comics. Right? Because everybody's... everybody's f***ed up in the comedy world. But with a audience, you get to hear... with a therapist... if I say something in a therapist... in a room with a therapist, I might not get a response. Like, how do you know it's f***ed up or not? Right? Or if you're in Hollywood, and people doing the stuff they do in Hollywood, how do you know if it's bad or not if nobody says nothing? But, if you go into a room of strangers of normal, quote-unquote, normal people and you say I did this thing, you will gauge whether it's good or how... how people view it by their reaction. 'Cause some people be like, "Awh, that's cool. It's cool to do that." And some people be like, "Nah, that ain't... what's up... what's up with that?" {Diane laughs} You know what I mean? So, I definitely lean on the audience or a regular person more than a comedian 'cause that's like preaching to the choir.
Diane Guerrero 15:03
Byron, I just wonder what the next step is. I mean, you could only get so much from your audience. And, I mean, first of all, I think you're a f***ing genius for getting this far with everything that you've been through and learning and, like, building an outlet for yourself. I mean, you've done that. Only really, really, really smart and emotionally intelligent and, and otherwise intelligent people do that. But what's the next step after that? 'Cause I think that more questions are gonna come up. But, you know, I wonder.
Byron Bowers 15:33
Yeah, the questions are gonna keep coming up and you have to accept that 'cause, you know, if you're building something, once you're done building, it's boring. [Diane: Mmhm] So, the questions should come up. If the questions don't come up, you're not growing. You know what I mean? [Diane: Right.] Every time I'm upset and I do something or... you know, it helps me to be in a relationship. And I'm having a... and I get into this, whatever I'm into, and then my lady is like, "You're raising your voice", and I'm like, "Oh, s**t, am I raising my voice? You know niggas talk loud when they get mad!" You know what I mean? Ya know, am I mad? I don't know, you know, I'm just passionate about what the f**k I'm saying. So, you know, uh, you don't necessarily need an audience, but you have to be aware of these patterns that you have and, if they're unhealthy, I think the universe will show you when it's time to change.
Diane Guerrero 16:27
After the break, how Byron found peace with his father. This podcast is focused on communities of color and their relationship to mental health. What do you wish was available for you, like, when you were growing up?
Byron Bowers 16:52
It's tough to say 'cause of how my life is shaping out. All those things helped me get here. [Diane: Yeah.] But, if I could give something to people like me... and I have to shout out to like, Linda Anderson, a friend of my mom, who gave me the these books, you know, when I was younger, maybe 20 years ago, to get into Tony Robbins, and all these people. Right? So, I would give people financial literacy, and I would give them the mental health conversation, and learn how to change your thought process, especially any child of the addict, to give them the tools to prepare them for what they 'bout to go through. You know? 'Cause we take it personally. Like, if your parents spending time on their drug instead of you, that's... you take that personally. And it's gonna affect you later on, but you don't know that. So, yeah, just to give the youth that. Like, screw racism and the stuff that the government all that stuff people complain about. Just giving them those seeds, financial literacy, and a better mental health, the tools to prepare to how to deal with anything mentally, I think could take them further and anywhere they want to go. I was in London, and I had a bad acid trip. And that's when I really, really understood what my dad was going through. And I was able to empathize with what he was going through. Because, I mean, that was seven hours. He going through it every day. And it allowed me to communicate with him. Because before it was always getting this busta, he accused me of trying to kill him and all that type of stuff. But once I had that trip, I was able to get into his world and go on this ride, because I went through a bad trip, and I had to accept this trip and go on it. Right. So I mean, my dad communication became tight. And we were just, I mean, we would talk for like a half hour, or who's trying to kill him, you know, I mean, and all these, you know, conspiracies and stuff.
Diane Guerrero 18:54
And he... he was diagnosed with schizophrenia?
Byron Bowers 18:56
Yeah, paranoid schizophrenia. [Diane: Okay.] You know. Uh, and then after that, I would have to come down from that conversation, which is tough.
Diane Guerrero 19:05
How did you decompress from that? I mean, it's tough because it realized, like, you know, it's still a sad acceptance of things that will never... like, I will never have, you know, when it comes to the parent and child relationship. You know, I thought my dad would die and not un... fully understand that, you know, that I forgave him and that he was a great father when he wasn't crazy. [Diane: Right.] And I had to accept that, which was tough. And he didn't, like, in the last few seconds before he died. I was he was able to communicate that with no words. You know, so there's still certain things but it on them on a macro level on a bigger level is still certain things I feel that we will rather as a people because I got a friend from Africa and they they did that and for the funeral. They had on all the African wardrobe, in the tradition of how they would send somebody to the next life, and I was like, it was a visual of things to me that my culture was robbed of, we would never have it, we could do 23andme, and we could put on the outfit. But the food and the certain knickknacks is just gone forever, is loss. And, you know, in life, there's certain certain things we have to, you know, accept. That's why I embrace all the different coaches, or nuances or coaches that I have, like being from the south, and being from Atlanta and like being a child of a schizophrenic. I mean, it's a free, we have a freedom in that too. We have a freedom in that, you know, because we don't, a lot of the rules that society give people we didn't have. So he was able to create, through our flaws this other side of life, you know, I mean? [Diane: Right. I love that.] were you able to make that mistake like this? Okay. And then normal people don't do that? Well, yes, the f**k they do, right. I like... I totally get what you're saying. I love... I love that you just said that right there, like, that...that not getting that back. How is it... I mean, how do we have those... these conversations with, with people who might also experience what you've experienced? Like, letting go of your dad, and, and... but not having... having to sort of go through that closure on your own or not having these traditions that, like, your friend had? How do we reconcile that?
Byron Bowers 21:47
I don't know, man, I think that's the problem that's going on in this country. When people try to ask for, you know, reconciliation for slavery, or, you know, what happened to the Native Americans and, and still that's happening to the... you know, these communities, you know, Latino communities. The... what they call it, equality, and like, is so complex. So, I don't know. I don't know how we... how we deal with it. I still go through it. I just accept it though. You know, I think it's better if... if America was just like, "Man, f**k that. That's just how it is here."
Diane Guerrero 22:23
You think that would be easier?
Byron Bowers 22:25
I mean, I had to, you know...
Diane Guerrero 22:27
Do you think you have fight for Reparations?
Byron Bowers 22:29
I don't... I... that's what I had to do. I had to accept like, this is what it is. 'Cause I've been to other countries and that's what it is. When I went to the DR {Dominican Republic}, and I see that Haitians get treated a certain way, or I'm in Japan I see how they treat Koreans. Or, I'll go to Palestine. You know what I mean? In the Middle East. Mexico where, you know, to me, it's like, they Mexican but, when you get to Mexico, they like, "We don't f**k with these people. We don't f**k with that..." We kicked a group of people out of Mexico." That's how you got the LA Latino. You know what I mean? [Diane: Right, right.] So, it's like, Oh, these things are not... to me I just accept it. Like, "Oh, this is how people are." So I moved on.
Diane Guerrero 23:08
Do you think that your work is like a step towards that liberation? Like, a step towards that work that needs to be done?
Byron Bowers 23:18
I don't know. It... I don't know if it is or is it just a burying or hiding of it emotionally. You know? Because, I mean, the privilege we have is that we come from people with mental illness and, like, addicts, but it's also the curse. Because while people are protesting about equal rights, we have other issues. That make equal rights seem like you ain't s**t. So, I'm like... a part of me, like, that's a privilege. That's a privilege to be doing, you know, certain protests and stuff out there on the grass and with your fist up. 'Cause the issues these, these... some of these issues that we fighting are even crazier.
Diane Guerrero 24:06
Yeah, because communities of color need access to mental health resources.
Byron Bowers 24:13
I think so. I mean, that's why I'm talking about it. You know, I reached a part in comedy where I couldn't go for any further. And I know they say, Oh, yeah, you know, people like comedians they can relate to. And that's another thing I had to give up. Well, I'm not, I'm not relatable. I had to accept that. And, since I accepted I'm not relatable, I was like, well, I mean, I'm doing all these jokes about Harry Potter and all these things, but it's a... it was... underneath that was real things that I experienced. So I'm like, well, since I'm not relatable, I'm ditching all the Harry Potter jokes and stuff and I'm just gonna talk about the real situation. And when I did that, I started finding people coming out of the woodwork. It's like, oh, that... now I'm, now I'm relatable to that group.
Diane Guerrero 25:00
Byron, what, where are you currently in your work? Like, what would be most helpful to hear about mental health for you? Or, to like, learn about or discover?
Byron Bowers 25:13
I don't know. Personally, I still make discoveries. I'm still growing as a person. And I'm more confident now that I will get to a place, you know what I mean, and I won't go too crazy. [Diane: Right.] I think with the world, I say, have fun with it. That's what I tell people on stage now. If you depressed, have fun with it. Life is full of ups and downs. We enjoy the ups. Why can't we... if we got money in our pocket, and we happy and we going out and we buying drinks, and why not enjoy when we broke? Like, man, screw it. You know what I mean? I just picked a cigarette up off the ground. I smoked that. I smoked that motherf***er. D**n, I can't believe I did that! You know what I mean. [Diane: Yeah.] I'm eating McDonald's and this... I slipped... walked past a homeless person and he got Whole Foods. I experienced that. [Diane: Right.] Embarrassing, you know what I mean? And, like, I learned how to... if I'm depressed, it's a, it's a selfish thing. I'm thinking about myself. I go feed the homeless or something then I'm not thinking about myself no more. So, this alleviates some of that depression. By, by taking it away from me. [Diane: By helping others.] Usually, when you're depressed, it's your surroundings or something happened and you feel helpless. Right? But, if you go out and help somebody, you become of service. You feel needed again. Where... and that's one thing that helps me by doing this. A part of me is like, I'm helping. You know, it's people that came to the show to laugh. Ya know, they out on date, they trying to get some p**sy, they drinking, and I'm f'in to talk about... about to tell a suicide joke, 'cause somebody there gotta hear it. So, I mean, y'all could be doing whatever y'all need to do right now, but I'm f'in to tell... I'm f'in to talk to that one person.
Diane Guerrero 27:04
You know, I'm so excited to... to keep watching you, keep seeing you just do your thing and help inspiring others. Your storytelling is f***ing real as hell. I connect with it. So many of us connect to it.
Byron Bowers 27:16
Oh, yeah. Now... Yeah, now it's definitely relatable because all the... think all the years of me doing dark jokes and not hitting and now it's like, "Oh!" I realized, like, I'm making you think about something that will reflect on yourself. And so, I'm comfortable with that 'cause it's something that we all should be doing anyway.
Diane Guerrero 27:39
Absolutely.
Byron Bowers 27:40
Life's gonna force you to grow or you gonna fall to the wayside. But every living thing on this earth grows... it goes through a cycle. So we got to enjoy it. Even if our life f***ed up, this is... this is it! {Diane laughs}
Diane Guerrero 27:56
Man, Byron! Thank you so much. I love your wisdom and everything you have to offer. I can't wait to see more.
Byron Bowers 28:01
Thank you, man. I don't know where I'm going from here, everybody. This could be the height of it. I don't know, or not, but just stay tuned. It's a journey. That's all I can say.
Diane Guerrero 28:15
Stay tuned, everybody. Thanks, Byron.
Byron Bowers 28:18
Thank you.
Diane Guerrero 28:31
Yeah, No, I'm Not Okay is a production of LAist Studios. Remember to rate and review our show. I just found out that it helps other people find it. So, if you like it, share it with your friends. The more people we can get to have conversations about mental health the better. If you've got a story you want to share about how you deal with mental health issues, send it my way. Record it on your phone's voice memo app and email it to YeahNo@laiststudios.com. And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter to get the latest episodes with a note from me, recommendations from our listeners and our team, and listener stories. Sign up@laist.com/newsletters. Jessica Pilot is our talent manager and producer. Our executive producers are Leo G. and me, Diane Guerrero. Web design by Andy Cheatwood at the digital and marketing teams at Southern California Public Radio. Thanks to the team at LAist Studios, including Taylor Coffman, Kristin Hayford, Kristen Muller, Michael Consentino, Robert Jo, Mildred Langford and Leo G. And a special thanks to Brian Crawford. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people. Additional support comes from the Angel Foundation, supporting transformational leaders, and by the California Health Care Foundation, dedicated to improving the mental health care system for all Californians.
