Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  00:00

I found a video of Oscar Gomez being interviewed after a rally at UC Santa Barbara in 1991.

Emigdio Cordova  00:09

[video clip] Uh, right now, we're uh, we're interviewing people to see their reactions after uh, the events of today. Can you state your name and where you're from?

Oscar Gomez  00:17

Ok. Ximon, Oscar Gomez aka El Bandido de UC Davis.

Emigdio Cordova  00:20

What are, what are your reactions uh, today's uh, what do you think uh, was accomplished?

Oscar Gomez  00:25

A lot of things were accomplished as far as, um, as UC Davis coming all the way from where we're at, to come down into our poyara. Mr. Acuna, you brought a sense of a union among the raza to uh, let them know and once again, [duck under]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  00:39

Oscar's surrounded by a few other student activists. He's the tallest, bending down a little to speak into the microphone, wearing sunglasses and a brown Baja hoodie. This is actually the first time I've heard him outside his radio show. Here, he sounds more casual, relaxed- in some ways, more personable.

Oscar Gomez  01:00

[video clip- fade up] It's about raza. I see MEChA taking uh, as far as MEChA all the, all the raza taking another direccion, going into the 21st century with more indigena conscencia. And I think that's the root and that's gonna be our power, you know, because that's where our pride is and our raices are. And um, they've been long. They've been, they've been stomped on too long. So-

Emigdio Cordova  01:20

All right, can you state your name, and where you're from?

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  01:22

At first, my eyes are glued to Oscar. But then, I'm looking at his crew. And I realize there's someone important standing behind Oscar and the interviewer, another Chicano activist. He's quiet in this video, and he's a little shorter with a thin black mustache and a brown beret. It's Noel Huerta. [music in] He was Oscar's good friend. He's also my first person of interest in this investigation. After Oscar's death, a lot of Oscar's family and friends saw Noel as suspicious. That's according to Oscar's friend, Ricardo Tapia, who we heard from last episode at Oscar's grave. Ricardo calls Noel by his nickname, Nene.

Ricardo Tapia  02:08

[cemetery ambient sounds] Nene know who killed him. Nene know who killed Oscar. It was his buddies from Hazard.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  02:13

Big Hazard is an infamous gang from the Ramona Gardens public housing development in Boyle Heights.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  02:19

[at cemetery] Is, was Nene in Big Hazard?

Ricardo Tapia  02:21

He wasn't in Big Hazard. But all his family, his friends, he grew up in that area. Oscar was kind of um, made a big impact on Nene. I thought he was our friend.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  02:33

Like Oscar, Noel was also a Chicano student activist. According to Ricardo, Oscar marched with Noel on November 16th, 1994. The day before Oscar died. He was supposed to stay at Noel's place in Santa Barbara. Ricardo believes there was a party that night.

Ricardo Tapia  02:50

[cemetery ambient sounds] They all gathered at, at either his house or his buddy's house or somebody's house. Um, there was two girls there. Those two girls were the girlfriends of two of his buddies from, from Hazard. Oscar having his, his um, his tape recorder. So he's interviewing them about what's going on and that's when the two, the two guys walk in.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  03:17

According to Ricardo, these two guys are mad at Oscar.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  03:21

Why did they get all pissed off?

Ricardo Tapia  03:24

If you ever knew Oscar, he was tall. He was pretty cut up. Good looking. They probably thought, he's moving in on our girl. Why are you interviewing our girls?

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  03:38

This is the first time I'm hearing about the possibility of gang involvement in Oscar's death. What Ricardo's telling me broadly does match up with what we know from the coroner's report from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office. The report says Oscar was last seen alive on November 16, around 9:30pm, in the Isla Vista neighborhood of Santa Barbara. Isla Vista's right next to campus, and a lot of students live there. The report says the victim was intoxicated and indicated to his friends that he wanted to get out of the apartment and walk around for a while. [pause] Why Oscar left the apartment and what happened to him after-- that's still a mystery. But Ricardo's saying at least one of those friends was Noel- Nene. Ricardo believes Oscar was killed. And he believes members of Big Hazard were involved.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  04:29

[at cemetery] What do you want us to find out?

Ricardo Tapia  04:31

It'll give some comfort to know. Oh, yeah, you know what? We were right. Or hey, you know what? We were wrong. I could be blaming Nene for something he didn't do. You know, I would like to know, and if it's my, if it's my bad, you know, my fault, my error, my apologies to the family. My apologies, you know, but I need to know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  04:53

So just to be clear, Nene told you that there were friends of his from Big Hazard there. Did he, did Nene say that they killed Oscar?

Ricardo Tapia  05:04

No, he didn't say that. He tried to diffuse it and tried to uh, make me believe that [music in] nothing happened. If you know anything about those kind of people, something happened.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  05:22

I'm Adolfo Guzman-Lopez, and this is Imperfect Paradise: The Forgotten Revolutionary. We're about to get closer to the night that Oscar died. And it gets way more complicated than I could have imagined. This episode- what Noel knew. [music out]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  05:55

I wish I could ask Noel Huerta directly what happened that night, what he knows. But he died in 2017. He was 45 years old. Ricardo Tapia is not the only one who is suspicious of Noel. After Oscar's death, the Gomez family felt like Noel avoided them. When we talked, Mr. And Mrs. Gomez said they believed Noel kept a secret about their son's death. Mr. Gomez even keeps a copy of Noel's obituary as a possible clue. It's written by Noel's brother, Alvaro, who's now an accomplished Chicano scholar. Mr. Gomez brings the obituary up pretty early in our conversations.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  06:35

[outdoor ambient sounds] We, we, we've seen it. And I saw that uh, piece. I read that piece. Yeah. What did you see in there that interested you?

Oscar Gomez, Sr.  06:44

I, I see, I, I see like uh, like uh, his brother said something to him. And then, and then he's trying to, to write it to kind of get it off his chest. Trying to get it off whatever...

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  06:59

Mr. Gomez is saying Noel must have said something to Alvaro, something that Alvaro's trying to hint at in Noel's obituary.

Oscar Gomez, Sr.  07:06

...in there, and says that, that, that Oscar was like a big influence in him, in him dying, I guess, or whatever, whatever happened to him. [AGL: Yeah.] And he doesn't say what... [duck under]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  07:17

Here's what the obituary says. [music in] "While Noel experienced/witnessed violent events in the projects, in Santa Barbara, nothing could prepare him for the tragic and mysterious death of one of his best friends, Oscar "El Bandido" Gomez, in 1994. While we'll never know what happened to Oscar- a smart, talented and handsome young Chicano, this tragic incident had a major emotional/mental impact on Noel until the end. Once leaving Santa Barbara, Noel withdrew from activism, mainly due to the death of his homeboy." [music out]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  07:53

[outdoor ambient sounds] If I remember correctly, he says that Oscar's death was the most significant, affected his brother [OG Sr.-Yeah.] for the rest of his life. [OG Sr.- Yeah.] So the question is how, because he didn't say how.

Oscar Gomez, Sr.  08:07

I think it'd be interesting just to hear him say, you know, how did Oscar's life or death affected him? Obviously, it did because he was the last one to see him.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  08:19

[music in] Alvaro is a professor, so I find his contact info online quick. I email him asking if we can talk. To my surprise, he replies an hour later, saying he remembers me. He tells me I interviewed him for a story more than a decade ago. He writes me that he's tried to avoid this issue, but that he wants to set the record straight about his brother. When I give him a call, he sounds threatening, angry that there's still blame laid on Noel. "If you're accusing my brother," he says, "we have a problem." That's after the break. [music out] [break]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  09:04

Producer Natalie Chudnovsky and I meet Alvaro Huerta at his townhouse in the Westside of Los Angeles. It's clean and spacious. White walls, high ceilings. As we turn our phones off, Alvaro takes the opportunity to crack a joke.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  09:20

[at AH's townhouse] Which one is, which one is it? [NC: The fancy one.]

Alvaro Huerta  09:21

The 12th. I stole it. I got it at MacArthur Park. [AGL and NC laugh]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  09:29

Alvaro is a skinny man, well dressed in a suit jacket, as if he's going to do a TV interview. He's much less intimidating than he was on the phone, cracking jokes about teaching class over Zoom in his pajamas. He has a small chubby white dog named "Lobo," - wolf in Spanish. Lobo patters over whenever Alvaro raises his voice or gets emotional.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  09:49

Let's uh, have you say your name and what you do, please.

Alvaro Huerta  09:54

Okay, I'm uh, Dr. Alvaro Huerta. I'm um, a fellow at Harvard divinity school, and I'm an associate professor at Cal Poly Pomona.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  10:03

I ask Alvaro about how his family came to Ramona Gardens, and he starts the story way back in Mexico. He says his grandfather fled a violent family feud in Michoacan, a feud that rivaled the Hatfields and McCoys. They moved to Tijuana and worked the fields in San Diego, then moved to Hollywood into a home with 30 people. From there, Alvaro says his mother applied for public housing. That's how they moved to Ramona Gardens.

Alvaro Huerta  10:32

Now, Ramona Gardens happens to be one of the most violent neighborhoods in in the United States. Uh, also known as Big Hazard, the Big Hazard projects.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  10:41

[music in] A friend of mine grew up in Ramona Gardens around the same time the Huertas did, and he knows all about the Big Hazard gang. He saw a lot of violence there, which is in part why he doesn't want me to use his name. He's told me about teenagers attacked with machetes, and drive-by shootouts with rival gangs. And also, a time when police officers threatened to shoot him simply for being a Ramona Gardens resident. Alvaro has similar memories. [music out]

Alvaro Huerta  11:13

So when we got there in the 70s, you get to the neighborhood and you have to fight, you know. That's the initiation, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  11:21

Fight against who?

Alvaro Huerta  11:22

The neighborhood kids. So they welcome you, they beat you up, and then they hug you. You're, you're one of us now, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  11:29

I grew up in National City, Mexican Filipino neighborhood, [AH: Yeah, yeah.] but not- my parents took me out of the community to, for schools and everything. So I never really had to cross gang territory and had to deal with them and everything. But the impression, you've heard this, that you get jumped in and then you're in, right? But--

Alvaro Huerta  11:46

[deep breath] I mean, yes and no. The, the thing with when they're kids is different. So when they're kids, they're just like playing, you know, it's pretend. And then um, and then some take it seriously, and then they go in that direction. So you always have like one guy whose, whose older brothers are in the gang, and they're killers. Uh, and they've been in and out of prison. So a lot of times, even though they're smaller than you, they like, they're bullies, and they pick on you because they know you can't do anything to them. Like I was always like, nervous and because I was skinny all my life into the present, so I didn't have like a physical, like abilities to fight. Uh, so over time, I had like a defense mechanism. I was funny, and I still am, apart from being good looking. And so a lot of times, I would, I would make the the local kid, like the bully, the main guy, like laugh, and then he liked me, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  12:43

Even though I didn't grow up in a place like Ramona Gardens, I can relate to what Alvaro's saying. When there's violence around you, you have to figure out ways to defend yourself. National City, where I grew up, is also home to some historic gangs. At 12, I decided to start working out because I wanted to look strong. Every time I saw a man on the street, I sized him up- trying to figure out if he was a threat.

Alvaro Huerta  13:10

It was dysfunctional, um, you know, growing up in a place like that in the inside the household and outside. But at the end of the day, if somebody messes with one of us, then they're gonna get it from all of us. So, so we, we, we live in an environment where, you know, they, they used to pick on my brothers a lot, and my sister, so I used to go beat up the kids that used to pick on them. So it was just, you're obligated to do that. So violence has always been part of our, our, our family. And it's not something that we're afraid of.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  13:43

Alvaro says their father didn't talk much, didn't share emotions, and wasn't the type to say, Hey, son, let's go outside and play catch. In a house with eight kids, it sounds like Alvaro took on a parental role toward his little brother, Noel. I hear a fatherly pride as Alvaro talks about how Noel found ways to excel despite the violence and dysfunction around him.

Alvaro Huerta  14:07

He got into like uh, pop locking in, in breakdancing. So when he got into that, he he was really good at it. So I would take him places and then he would compete against other kids. And in sports when he would play baseball, he was the pitcher. When he would play football, he was, he was uh, the quarterback.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  14:26

Alvaro says Noel was a better student at school than he was. As a teenager, Noel read the writings of thinkers like Malcolm X. He got accepted into both UCLA and UC Berkeley when he was 17.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  14:38

Nene ends up uh, going to UC Santa Barbara. Did he take it a step further and get involved or want to start an organization or joined any organizations at UC Santa Barbara?

Alvaro Huerta  14:51

Noel was already politicized at, at 14, so by the time he got to Santa Barbara, he became involved in El Congreso.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  14:58

El Congreso is UC Santa Barbara's version of MEChA, the Chicano student organization. That's actually how Noel met another friend of Oscar's, Judith Segura-Mora. She's the one who recruited Oscar to MEChA at UC Davis. We heard from her last episode. She and Noel dated on and off for two years around this time, so she has another perspective on who he was during college and what happened after Oscar died.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  15:26

What do I need to know about Noel Huerta as a, as a, as a person, as an intellectual person?

Judith Segura-Mora  15:31

Oh, he was very um, like a historian. Deeply involved in the details of the Chicano movement from the 60s on up, which was part of the reason why I was attracted to that, like the intellectual curiosity.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  15:46

Judith and Noel were no longer dating when Oscar died. But they were still close enough that he told her about that night. Judith says Noel told her there was a party, like we've heard about before, a tense exchange over a girl, and then Oscar left to chill out. But after Oscar's death, many of his family and friends- like Oscar's parents, like Ricardo- started wondering if there wasn't more to Noel's version of what happened.

Judith Segura-Mora  16:16

Instantly, the suspicion started going against Noel. Why would he let him walk off by himself when he was um, pushed out of the party. And that created a lot of tension for me, because, on on the one hand, Noel and I were not in a relationship by that time, but I was still very much a committed friend. I trusted him. I knew that he would never do anything to hurt Oscar. But it was possible negligence, to not, like to be under the influence in a party. And then your friend is having conflict with someone and is being uh, forced to leave. [music in] And Noel being at the party, the party is more important for the moment than the bigger commitment to think, you know, something's gonna happen to my friend. I could have a different opinion about what happened because Oscar was also one who was not going to be told what to do. So let's you know, let's assume that um, Noel is telling him, Hey, man, don't leave. Don't leave. Things will be cool. Things will be cool. But Oscar now, didn't feel welcome. And he said, Nah, man, I'm getting the, you know, I'm getting out of here and walks off on his own. I could see that scenario as well. [music out]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  17:49

Either way, about 15 hours later, Oscar was found lifeless on the shore, a mile and a half away. And as the person closest to Oscar that night, Noel does seem to be the one most likely to know what happened. This all raises a lot of questions for me. And Noel’s brother, Alvaro, has some answers. That's after the break. [break]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  18:17

Alvaro Huerta remembers Oscar Gomez well. He was one of his brother's good friends.

Alvaro Huerta  18:23

Noel started hanging out with with Oscar through the Congreso. You know, Congreso and MEChA, they're really the same thing. I only met Oscar once in in one of those big rallies. The guy, he, he reminded me a lot of my my brother, you know, he had everything. He was a good-looking dude. Uh, he was smart, talented, and then he loved music. And then him and my- I think that's what brought- him and my brother had a lot in common because they both love music. And then being Chicano, being in a predominantly white school, they gravitate towards each other. So it's creating like safe spaces for each other, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  19:03

So Oscar's body was found November 17th, '94. When did Nene call you?

Alvaro Huerta  19:11

I don't remember like the exact, I mean, back then there was no cell phones or anything like that. So I don't remember the the exact um, like the first time I talked to him about it. But um, here's what happened. So there was like four guys, they were drinking, and they- Oscar got into a fight with one of them. Okay, and then Nene broke it up. And at this point, I don't even remember if it was night or not, it it might have been, and then Oscar left because he was pissed off. So by the time Nene, the- and the guy started looking for him, because they were worried, they couldn't find him.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  19:55

So far, this version of the story is similar to what we've heard before.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:00

Who are those four guys?

Alvaro Huerta  20:02

No, no, like two other guys.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:03

No, but y- the four you said.

Alvaro Huerta  20:05

Nene, Oscar and two guys.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:09

Oh, I thought you meant there were four guys in addition to. Okay.

Alvaro Huerta  20:14

There's four total. So it was Nene, Oscar and two guys.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:20

Yeah, I was confused because I'd heard there were more. The reason I'm stuck on this detail is that I want to find out who else was there the night Oscar died.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:21

Who were the two guys?

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:22

They were from mechista- There, there were students at UC Santa Barbara. I didn't know their names, and I never asked.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  20:39

A childhood friend of Oscar's who we talked to recently said that Nene called him the day after uh, Oscar was found and told him that they were friends of Nene's from Big Hazard.

Alvaro Huerta  20:54

That's not true. He's lying. [pause] That's not true. [pause] Those were students. I asked Nene, I asked him point blank, what happened? And he told me. So everybody- see, there's a lot of rumors out there. Okay, and I put everything I say on the name of my mother, my son, and everything I find sacred. Right? So there's no reason for me to lie. I'm most loyal, more than anything, to my family. And so if there's something that like, is going to hurt my family, am I going to protect them? Yes. Am I going to talk about it? No. You know, am I going to like snitch on my family or say something's that's g- nah, I'm never gonna do that. You know, that, that's kind of like where we're from. W- w- we have that mentality, like, if somebody does something bad you, you deal with it in house, you don't, you don't turn them over to the cops. You don't do that.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  21:54

Although help me understand this, Alvaro. Just a moment ago, though, I kind of heard you say that, no ibas a decir algo que iba a perjudicar tu familia, you wouldn't say something that would put your family at risk. [AH: Right, right, right, right.] So in a way, I kind of heard that say if it was, if they [AH: No, but it, but it, but it wasn't.] were Big Hazard guys, you wouldn't, you wouldn't say that.

Alvaro Huerta  22:13

No, but it wasn't though. It wasn't. [pause] I understand what you're saying, but like I live like, I'm just trying to give you an understanding of who I am. This is the code that I live under, you know. But what, how- [laughs] how are two guys from the projects going to be in the apartment? That is stupid. That's the stupidest thing. That's a university. There were no two guys from Hazard there. That's not true. Why would they even go to the project? My br- my brother wasn't from Hazard. Why would they hang out? Guys from Hazard only hanging out with other guys from Hazard. It doesn't work that way. So this what I mean about being being logical. [music in] If you're not in a gang, you're like a civilian. You don't hang out with the gang members. If those guys were from Hazard, those guys don't mess around. Okay, those guys don't mess around, they would have jumped him right there.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  23:02

At the house.

Alvaro Huerta  23:03

Yeah. They would have just jumped him. And that's it. Like literally, like not that they would have killed him, but they would have just beat him up and-

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  23:09

Well, they're out of their element, Alvaro. They're away from-

Alvaro Huerta  23:12

That, that's not how these guys work. They're your- they're at their apartment or their their party. So there's not, so that that whole thing, that whole has to be like, stricken for the record. That doesn't make sense at all. There's there's no ground, there's no basis for it.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  23:29

Nene never told you about a particular [AH: No, we didn't get into that.] exciting thing or-

Alvaro Huerta  23:34

It goes back to this. We just don't ask questions. Like when things happen in the neighborhood, you don't ask questions. So like, if somebody gets into a fight, or or somebody sells somebody drugs and something goes wrong, we don't ask like who did it, what happened? Like, it's just part of, you know, how you grew up, you know? The the the questions that I was most concerned about were, what happened in terms of like, with the cops, you know, because what ended up happening was that the cops interrogated everybody, that would have been part of the report you know, if it was gang affiliated.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  24:08

What did Nene tell you about when they interviewed him?

Alvaro Huerta  24:11

Well, they asked him the same questions that everybody, everybody's asking, is like, what happened? And like, in exactly the story that I'm telling you, that's exact- that's what happened. That's what he told the cops. Now if there was something suspicious, then the cops would have, would have arrested him. Nobody's saying he was involved. I mean, I've never heard that. So for the record, and like I said, I'm being honest here. But like that he knew who did it, you know? That's that's the rumor. And then with this guy saying that the guys from Hazard were there, that's not true. My brother, he didn't, he wasn't in the gang. Never in the gang. He didn't hang out with the guys from Hazard. So that's a lie.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  24:43

[music in] After Oscar's death, Noel withdrew from Oscar's family and friends. Oscar's family said they were not able to sit down and talk to Noel about what happened. They saw it as a sign that he was hiding something. But Alvaro Huerta says that withdrawal was actually about something else. Regret, regret that Noel didn't stop Oscar from leaving the party.

Alvaro Huerta  25:15

What really affected him is uh, it was like he was the last one to see him. And then in his mind, like I could have done something. Like I could have prevented his death. So it's kind of this guilt there.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  25:27

Do you remember him telling you some [AH: Yeah.] thing to that effect? What did he say to you?

Alvaro Huerta  25:31

Once he left like that, my brother, he did go after him, but it was too late. Right? So it was kind of like, I don't know if it was a minute or two. I don't know if Oscar ran. You know what I mean? Cause see, that's the unknown, we don't know. So I'm not gonna speculate. Once he left, nobody knows what happened. So even if it wasn't true, just the questions being um, like launched at him, like he was like, literally being attacked from different directions. It affected him, you know, his mental health. [music out]

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  26:07

In the years after, Noel's siblings found success. Alvaro as a professor and Harvard fellow. Another brother, Salomon is a nationally renowned painter. And Alvaro says Noel was the smartest of them all. But Alvaro says Noel's life took a turn, because of these accusations. A turn that affected him for the rest of his life.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  26:31

What was going on with Nene? Where was he living? What was he, did he hold down a job?

Alvaro Huerta  26:35

Oh, no, no. Yeah, I'm not gonna get into that. It goes back to what I'm saying about you know, protecting his uh- the thing, he passed away, so I don't want to, I don't want to shine light on that because if if he was alive, I w- I would let him like, speak for himself, you know. But like, at the end of the day, we're a family. So w-, as a family, we always like protect ourselves and protect each other. All I can say with that is like that that- the Oscar incident, it it was like a traumatic uh, incident that, that affect him through the rest of his life. And, and part of it had to do with like his own guilt, like he, him thinking to himself, I could have done this. I could have done that. You know, it's like, you want to go back and y- but you can't go back.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  27:24

In your obituary, you didn't say how he died.

Alvaro Huerta  27:27

No, no.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  27:28

How did he die?

Alvaro Huerta  27:29

No, no, it goes back to him, so I'm not, I'm not gonna get into that. Yeah. Yeah, what I said in in the wake he, like he died of a broken heart. [pause] Yeah, it was- how can I put it? To grow up the way we did, you have to be- you have to lose your humanity [pause] in order to, to withstand that and to come out alive. If you have your humanity, if you have your your- then y- you're not going to make it. But it's not normal for anybody to see violence. Like as a kid. It's not normal for like, to see that your friend got killed or- I'm not talking about Oscar, I'm talking before that.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  28:27

About yourself.

Alvaro Huerta  28:28

My whole family.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  28:30

You've seen people get killed.

Alvaro Huerta  28:31

Yeah.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  28:33

And you're saying you witnessed that, and Nene also witnessed those things.

Alvaro Huerta  28:36

Yeah, he witnessed it, all my, my whole family did. And so a lot of times with the homeboys, they channel that and they become that, right? If nobody gives a fuck about me, why should I give a fuck about anybody? But the thing with Nene is that he was too sensitive. That was his problem. When something happened, it it impacted him more than the average person. Okay, and or, or like as Chicanos, as males, you know, w- we're not accustomed, like to say I love you. You know, like, I never told my father I loved him, for example, and he never told me. But Nene would say like, I love you.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  28:36

Nene would say that to you. [AH: Yeah.] Do you think he taught you to say that?

Alvaro Huerta  29:27

Yeah. And that's what I said at at the funeral, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  29:31

I'm feeling what Alvaro's saying here. I say I love you to my wife and two kids, but it's hard for me to say, te amo, te quiero, to my own mother. I had cousins in Mexico who were openly affectionate, so where did I get that from? I remember my mom saying I love you when I was a little kid. But then I also remember when she stopped saying it. It was when we moved in with my stepfather. I knew she loved me. One way she expressed her love was that she threw me birthday parties every year, even into my late 20s. [birthday party sounds] It was like she had saved up all her love from the year into that one day. [music in] She'd make a yellow cake with Cool Whip icing and strawberries. She'd get a piñata, emcee the events, ushering family members to take multiple photos. But I remember feeling there was something missing. Looking back now, [music out] what was missing was saying the words out loud. My feelings about it now are complicated. I wish it was different. But I believe she did the best she could. Like Alvaro and like Nene, she came from a legacy of violence and instability. Her father was murdered when she was three. She was a field worker as a little kid. It all gets so much more complicated when you understand where someone is really coming from.

Alvaro Huerta  31:27

It's just that people- The problem with most people, they, like I said, they, they just don't understand you know, and then they don't have sympathy. They, they're- They just, it, it's easy and quick to judge [music in] but nobody that comes from the projects is a normal person. You know, myself included. For other people who judge or to try to figure out why Nene lived his life that he did or the, however he lived, then that's why I say he died from a broken heart because [pause] you know, with with people like that, that's like, [pause] they're like too kind, you know. Like you have to be mean, y- you have to have that mean side too. Like your friend died. Yeah, he died, you know, I have to live on. He wasn't like that, you know.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  32:25

I came into this interview with my own preconceived notions of Ramona Gardens and Big Hazard. And about Noel, who I imagined as this rough kid who grew up in the projects. I came in thinking Noel was a suspect. But now I think he might have been another victim in Oscar's death. In our reporting, we reached out to other UC Santa Barbara friends of Noel from this time, including his roommate, and they also don't remember Noel hanging out with members from Big Hazard in Santa Barbara, or mentioning them in relation to Oscar's death. So while I can't totally discount the Big Hazard theory, I can tell you that we have not found any evidence to support it. I'll keep it in the back of my mind. But it feels less likely to me now. What feels more pressing is to go to Santa Barbara to walk the campus and the shoreline. And to find out what Noel himself told law enforcement when he was questioned. [music in] When I looked through Oscar's death report from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department, it says there was "intense investigation" for Major Crimes investigators. If so, there must be some documentation that survived. Maybe interviews with suspects, some details that I haven't seen yet. So where is that report? And what's in it?

Raquel Zick  33:54

[ambient outdoor sounds] Like, the whole file is over 150 pages.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  33:59

And all that's public record, right, that I can request?

Raquel Zick  34:01

Well see here's the problem. [AGL: Yeah.] So and let me answer your question with a question. [AGL: Okay.] What is the, what are you guys looking into this for?

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  34:11

That's in the next episode.

Adolfo Guzman-Lopez  34:21

Imperfect Paradise: The Forgotten Revolutionary is written, reported and hosted by me, Adolfo Guzman- Lopez. The show is a production of LAist Studios. Antonia Cereijido and Leo G are the executive producers for LAist Studios. Natalie Chudnovsky is the lead producer, and our associate producers are James Chow and Francisco Aviles-Pino. Editing by Audrey Quinn. Fact checking by Audrey Regan. Mixing by our engineer, E. Scott Kelly. Our music supervisor is Doris Anahi Muñoz. The music is written, performed and recorded by Joseph Quiñones at Second Hand Studios in Rialto, California. Our website laist.com is designed by Andy Cheatwood and the digital and marketing teams at LAist Studios. The marketing team of LAist Studios created our branding. Thanks to the team at LAist Studios, including Taylor Coffman, Sabir Brara, Kristen Hayford, Kristen Muller, Andy Orozco, Michael Cosentino, Emily Guerin and Leo G. Imperfect Paradise: The Forgotten Revolutionary is a production of LAist Studios. Support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Dona Crawford, who believe that quality journalism makes Los Angeles a better place to live. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people. [music out]