Where are Manson's Children Now?

This is the Spahn movie ranch near Chatsworth, a Los Angeles suburb, shown Dec. 11, 1969, where Charles Manson and his "family" of followers lived, at the time actress Sharon Tate and seven others were slain. (AP Photo)

For more up-to-date information on Charles Manson and other Family members, click here: Where Are The Manson Family Members Now?

A friend of mine stopped at a convenience store while driving across the California desert in the late 80s. As he turned the aisle, he almost had a heart attack. He was staring right into the face of Charlie Manson! He quickly realized this short teenager was too young, and of course Manson was locked up. Still, the resemblance was uncanny. The teen's mother protectively came over and gave my friend a dirty look. He thought he saw a scar on her forehead, but he couldn't be sure as she quickly ushered the boy away. As he drove out of the parking lot, he noticed a "Charlie Lives" bumper sticker on the car. Was it a random fan, a follower, or could that have been one of Manson's children?

There was a guy hanging out in the desert in the 90s who claimed to be Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz, a girl named Kimberley Davis who claims Manson's name is on her birth certificate, and now there is a rock musician in LA with a band called New Rising Son making claims.

It got me wondering - where are Manson's children today?

In January 1955, Manson married Rosalie Jean Willis. In 1956 (Most likely April, if my calculations are correct) Rosalie gave birth to his son, Charles Manson Jr., who commited suicide in 1993.

According to court records, Manson married Leona Rae "Candy" Stevens in California in 1959 (During a short break from prison). In April 1963, Leona was granted a divorce; she and Manson allegedly had a son, Charles Luther Manson, (Bugliosi, Internet Accuracy Project, Wikipedia) possibly born April 10, 1963. (Charliemanson.com). After the marriage, he was back in prison in 1960, so the dates are somewhat dubious. Or he got out for awhile again.

Manson was in and out of prison for much of his life. In an interview with Brian King, later used in the film Charles Manson Superstar, Manson says, "Every time I get out, I get a woman and a kid, and then she runs off...then the kid shows up 20, 30 years later, fat and acting like his mother..." He gets so detailed and resentful here that I get the impression he is speaking only of Charlie M. Manson Jr.

I have watched a number of similar interviews with Manson, and whenever the question comes up, he likes to say, "They are all my children." He doesn't mean all of the children from the Family are his children. He means everybody in the world. In a 1981 interview, Tom Snyder quizzed Manson on the subject and got the usual Mansonese.

Tom: And besides the son from your marriage, you've got, what, four other children somewhere?

Manson: Oh, I don't uh, uh, think I'm responsible for as many as you people want to lay on me.

Tom: Well, how many children do you have, Charles?

Manson: How many children do I have? Uh, I don't know. I've got lots of children, man. Uh, in fact, sometimes I think even you're a child.

Tom: But you just said you don't have any children, you don't have any family in context of the Ranch. I'm talking about children that (sighs) are your, uh, natural children.

Manson: How many are my natural ego?

Tom: No, children.

Manson: Oh, children? I would divide one child from the other?

Manson was released from Terminal Island on March 21, 1967, and the raid on Death Valley took place October 12, 1969. I am going to assume that on average, any children would be born at the earliest 7 months into pregnancy and at most, at 9 months and 2 weeks after conception. Conception can sometimes occur up to a week after sexual relations due to a number of factors. Therefore, any Spahn-era biological children of Charles Manson would have to have been born between October 21, 1967 and August 7, 1970. This would make them between 37 and 39 years old today.

When Manson had his "Devils Witches" in Death Valley, two pregnant women ran away and were found hitch-hiking (Bugliosi). Children's Services picked up 10 children in the subsequent desert raid. Not counting people who may have left the Family beforehand, that is 12 children. With the free love and various bikers running around, it's difficult to say how many of those children could be Charles Manson's biological offspring. Plus, from early videos it is clear by their ages some of the children were born before the formation of the Family.

Obviously, I am not the first one to ask this question. Here is an indepth investigation, featuring Mary Brunner's baby, whose April 15, 1968 birth was so vividly described in the first video. Valentine Michael, nicknamed "Sunstone Hawk" and "Pooh Bear" has dropped out of sight since this video was filmed around 1993.

Charles M. Manson Jr. Son b. 1956 by wife Rosalie Jean Willis. Commited suicide in 1993.

Charles Luther Manson. Son b. April 10, 1963 by wife Leona Rae "Candy" Stevens. Disappeared so successfully, he is often reported as "allegedly" existing..

Michael Brunner. Son b. April 1, 1968 by Mary Brunner. His mother was the first member of the Family


Other Children of The Family, Paternity Uncertain:

Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz. Son b.October 7, 1968 to Susan Atkins. It is stated as fact that Manson was not the father, although it is unclear how anyone can be certain (Unless he didn't have sex with her). She has said that the father was a short-term Family member by the name of Bruce Hall. She has had no contact with her son since her incarceration in 1969. Her son was adopted (Wikipedia) by a California couple and renamed Paul.

Phoenix Son b. January 5, 1971, to Catherine Share (Gypsy) about 6 months too late to be Manson's. Although she will not officially confirm paternity, she has stated that fellow Family member Steven Grogan was the father (charliesfamily.tripod.com)

Ivan. Son b. September 16, 1969 to Sandra Good. Boyfriend Joel Pugh and Charles Manson have both been named as the father. Both seem doubtful candidates. Little is known about Good's son Ivan, however, it has been reported that he went to College on a football scholarship. (www.cielodrive.com) I don't know why they would be doubtful candidates. The dates line up (unless the child is biracial). One theory is that since she had the child in a hospital, which was against the Family way, it was doubtful it would have been Manson's.

Angel. Son b. March 1970 to Linda Kasabian, father unknown. Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). In late June of 1969, she attempted a reconciliation with her husband. On July 4, she had sex with Tex. On July 5, she had sex with Manson. On August 10th, she told Manson she was pregnant. So it could have been any of the three. On August 13, she returned to her husband. On December 12, she was arrested in Concorde. She had brought one child, Tanya, into the family. She later regained custody of Tanya from the foster system.


Public Contenders:

Matthew Robert: I would need an exact date of birth. His claims are based on a one-night-stand his mother had with Manson and another biker which is difficult to substantiate. It seems like the real Manson kids try to hide and avoid publicity. The louder someone makes the claim, the more it makes me doubt them.

kimberley davis (manson)
Date: 29 Sep 2004
charles manson is my biological father. he may be in the eyes of the public a horrable person but to me he is my daddy. i am 35 years old and he never even had the chance to meet me. his name is on my birth certificate as being my father. i was born november 22nd 1969 in alexandria louisiana. i love charles so much that it breaks my heart to read all the negative things that people write about my father. if anyone wants to comment about this post then please write all you want. Kimberly... (sic) This one is a dead-end. (From the website websleuths.com: http://users.adelphia.net/~mansonmurders/disc2_frm.htm)


On the website from cielodrive.com and themansonfamilytoday.com, they mention several ex-family members with children:

Barbara Hoyt
Hoyt, along with a girl named Sherry Cooper, fled the family. Manson eventually caught up with the pair, at a diner in the town of Ballarat. With a diner full of witnesses, he gave the girls money to return to LA. After being dosed with an LSD-laced hamburger in Hawaii, Hoyt returned to high school, graduated, and then pursued a nursing degree in college. She has since married and divorced, and currently lives in Washington State with her daughter (Again, no age).

Kathryn Lutesinger (Kitty, Catherine Lynn Drake, Katy)
Kathryn Lutesinger was brought into the family through her boyfriend Bobby Beausoleil. At the time, she was pregnant. On February 11, 1970, Kitty gave birth to a baby girl, which she named Jene. Beausoleil was arrested and held for the murder of Gary Hinman on On August 5, 1969. It was probably the same baby. Later that summer, Lutesinger moved to Death Valley with the rest of the family. At Myers Ranch, she finally got Sadie to tell her what Beausoleil was in jail for. Sadie said it was murder, and laughed. On the night of October 9, 1969, Kitty and Stephanie Schram fled Barker Ranch. They eventually flagged down a passing police car, and asked for protection (possibly these are the pregnant girls mentioned in Helter Skelter).

Ruth Ann Morehouse (Ouisch)
A pregnant Ruth Ann was arrested in December of 1970 for slipping LSD in Barbara Hoyt's hamburger (Her pregnancy is four months too late to be Manson's). Paternity unknown. After being released, she fled the state to go live with her sister in Carson City, Nevada. She was last reported to be living with her husband and three children somewhere in the Midwest (Again, we would have to know if there were other pregnancies prior to this one).

Nancy Laura Pitman (Brenda Sue)
Today, she is completely disconnected from her past, and is reported to be living in the Pacific Northwest with her four children (No ages, although being in the order of the Rainbow (gold) proves she was one of the last of the faithful).

Catherine Irene Gillies (Cappy, Capistrano, Cathy Myers, Patricia Anne Burke, Patti Sue Jardin)
She joined the Family sometime in 1968. After the Family broke apart, Cappy married a biker named Dave Barton and they had two sons and two daughters. Now divorced, she lives in Oregon, She has not completely renounced Manson. (Another source claims she lives near Death Valley).


Coincidentally, David E. Smith, M.D**. and Alan J. Rose*** conducted "A Case Study of the Charles Manson Group Marriage Commune" 15 months prior to the murders. here are some relevant excerpts:

Attitudes Toward the Children

One of the most significant characteristics of the communes in general is the return to natural, almost primitive techniques of childbirth and child rearing. This commune was no different. Of the 14 females in the "immediate family," two were pregnant at the time of our observation. Both said that Manson was the father, although there was no way to verify the claim, as the sexual relations in the group were polygamous. It should be noted that Manson was held in such high regard by the girls that all of them wanted to carry his child.

In general, commune dwellers reject the concept of both pre-natal care and well-baby care, as well as birth certificates and immunizations. (editor's note:one more problem hindering my research). The mother [of one child] and the group were against circumcision, but later forced by county health officials to have the operation performed. This occurred after the child was given to foster parents while the mother was being tried for a drug violation (possession of marijuana). It was at this time, also, that the child was given a birth certificate. This latter "injustice" was viewed by the group as the most harmful, as it was felt that this was an example of certification and harassment by society. To have the child numbered and registered with the state by means of a birth certificate is a practice that most commune dwellers reject.


Sexual Practices and Child Rearing

Since the group had extremely permissive sexual attitudes, the members felt no need for conventional marriage relationships which they considered psychologically destructive. The large number of divorces in the larger society and in their own family backgrounds helped them to rationalize or reinforce this attitude.

The group functioned as "one husband and wife." They took communal responsibility for the children, although the mother cared for the infant during the early natal period with breast feeding. The entire group believed that they gave the child more attention and affection than did most families. The child was always the center of attraction and went everywhere with the group. The child was viewed as the one member of the group to most closely emulate and followe, as he alone was "untainted" by society. Charlie used the words of Jesus, "He who is like the small child shall reap the rewards of heaven," as a guide for the group's child rearing philosophy.

**Assistant Clinical Professor of Toxicology, U.C. Medical Center, San Francisco and Medical Director, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.

***Research Associate, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.
1970 and comes from the Journal of the American Society of Psychosomatic Dentistry and Medicine.(?!)I believe this is the same article that was originally published in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs.

In January 1955, Manson married Rosalie Jean Willis. In 1956 (Most likely April, if my calculations are correct) Rosalie gave birth to his son, Charles Manson Jr., who commited suicide in 1993.

According to court records, Manson married Leona Rae "Candy" Stevens in California in 1959 (During a short break from prison). In April 1963, Leona was granted a divorce; she and Manson allegedly had a son, Charles Luther Manson, (Bugliosi, Internet Accuracy Project, Wikipedia) possibly born April 10, 1963. (Charliemanson.com). After the marriage, he was back in prison in 1960, so the dates are somewhat dubious. Or he got out for awhile again.

Manson was in and out of prison for much of his life. In an interview with Brian King, later used in the film Charles Manson Superstar, Manson says, "Every time I get out, I get a woman and a kid, and then she runs off...then the kid shows up 20, 30 years later, fat and acting like his mother..." He gets so detailed and resentful here that I get the impression he is speaking only of Charlie M. Manson Jr.

I have watched a number of similar interviews with Manson, and whenever the question comes up, he likes to say, "They are all my children." He doesn't mean all of the children from the Family are his children. He means everybody in the world. In a 1981 interview, Tom Snyder quizzed Manson on the subject and got the usual Mansonese.

Tom: And besides the son from your marriage, you've got, what, four other children somewhere?

Manson: Oh, I don't uh, uh, think I'm responsible for as many as you people want to lay on me.

Tom: Well, how many children do you have, Charles?

Manson: How many children do I have? Uh, I don't know. I've got lots of children, man. Uh, in fact, sometimes I think even you're a child.

Tom: But you just said you don't have any children, you don't have any family in context of the Ranch. I'm talking about children that (sighs) are your, uh, natural children.

Manson: How many are my natural ego?

Tom: No, children.

Manson: Oh, children? I would divide one child from the other?

- Transcription from www.charliemanson.com


Manson was released from Terminal Island on March 21, 1967, and the raid on Death Valley took place October 12, 1969. I am going to assume that on average, any children would be born at the earliest 7 months into pregnancy and at most, at 9 months and 2 weeks after conception. Conception can sometimes occur up to a week after sexual relations due to a number of factors. Therefore, any Spahn-era biological children of Charles Manson would have to have been born between October 21, 1967 and August 7, 1970. This would make them between 37 and 39 years old today.

When Manson had his "Devils Witches" in Death Valley, two pregnant women ran away and were found hitch-hiking (Bugliosi). Children's Services picked up 10 children in the subsequent desert raid. Not counting people who may have left the Family beforehand, that is 12 children. With the free love and various bikers running around, it's difficult to say how many of those children could be Charles Manson's biological offspring. Plus, from early videos it is clear by their ages some of the children were born before the formation of the Family.

Obviously, I am not the first one to ask this question. Here is an indepth investigation, featuring Mary Brunner's baby, whose April 15, 1968 birth was so vividly described in the first video. Valentine Michael, nicknamed "Sunstone Hawk" and "Pooh Bear" has dropped out of sight since this video was filmed around 1993.

part 2


Final Roundup - Pretty Sure:

Charles M. Manson Jr. Son b. 1956 by wife Rosalie Jean Willis. Commited suicide in 1993.

Charles Luther Manson. Son b. April 10, 1963 by wife Leona Rae "Candy" Stevens. Disappeared so successfully, he is often reported as "allegedly" existing..

Michael Brunner. Son b. April 1, 1968 by Mary Brunner. His mother was the first member of the Family


Other Children of The Family, Paternity Uncertain:

Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz. Son b.October 7, 1968 to Susan Atkins. It is stated as fact that Manson was not the father, although it is unclear how anyone can be certain (Unless he didn't have sex with her). She has said that the father was a short-term Family member by the name of Bruce Hall. She has had no contact with her son since her incarceration in 1969. Her son was adopted (Wikipedia) by a California couple and renamed Paul.

Phoenix Son b. January 5, 1971, to Catherine Share (Gypsy) about 6 months too late to be Manson's. Although she will not officially confirm paternity, she has stated that fellow Family member Steven Grogan was the father (charliesfamily.tripod.com)

Ivan. Son b. September 16, 1969 to Sandra Good. Boyfriend Joel Pugh and Charles Manson have both been named as the father. Both seem doubtful candidates. Little is known about Good's son Ivan, however, it has been reported that he went to College on a football scholarship. (www.cielodrive.com) I don't know why they would be doubtful candidates. The dates line up (unless the child is biracial). One theory is that since she had the child in a hospital, which was against the Family way, it was doubtful it would have been Manson's.

Angel. Son b. March 1970 to Linda Kasabian, father unknown. Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). In late June of 1969, she attempted a reconciliation with her husband. On July 4, she had sex with Tex. On July 5, she had sex with Manson. On August 10th, she told Manson she was pregnant. So it could have been any of the three. On August 13, she returned to her husband. On December 12, she was arrested in Concorde. She had brought one child, Tanya, into the family. She later regained custody of Tanya from the foster system.


Public Contenders:

Matthew Robert: I would need an exact date of birth. His claims are based on a one-night-stand his mother had with Manson and another biker which is difficult to substantiate. It seems like the real Manson kids try to hide and avoid publicity. The louder someone makes the claim, the more it makes me doubt them.

kimberley davis (manson)
Date: 29 Sep 2004
charles manson is my biological father. he may be in the eyes of the public a horrable person but to me he is my daddy. i am 35 years old and he never even had the chance to meet me. his name is on my birth certificate as being my father. i was born november 22nd 1969 in alexandria louisiana. i love charles so much that it breaks my heart to read all the negative things that people write about my father. if anyone wants to comment about this post then please write all you want. Kimberly... (sic) This one is a dead-end. (From the website websleuths.com: http://users.adelphia.net/~mansonmurders/disc2_frm.htm)


On the website from cielodrive.com and themansonfamilytoday.com, they mention several ex-family members with children:

Barbara Hoyt
Hoyt, along with a girl named Sherry Cooper, fled the family. Manson eventually caught up with the pair, at a diner in the town of Ballarat. With a diner full of witnesses, he gave the girls money to return to LA. After being dosed with an LSD-laced hamburger in Hawaii, Hoyt returned to high school, graduated, and then pursued a nursing degree in college. She has since married and divorced, and currently lives in Washington State with her daughter (Again, no age).

Kathryn Lutesinger (Kitty, Catherine Lynn Drake, Katy)
Kathryn Lutesinger was brought into the family through her boyfriend Bobby Beausoleil. At the time, she was pregnant. On February 11, 1970, Kitty gave birth to a baby girl, which she named Jene. Beausoleil was arrested and held for the murder of Gary Hinman on On August 5, 1969. It was probably the same baby. Later that summer, Lutesinger moved to Death Valley with the rest of the family. At Myers Ranch, she finally got Sadie to tell her what Beausoleil was in jail for. Sadie said it was murder, and laughed. On the night of October 9, 1969, Kitty and Stephanie Schram fled Barker Ranch. They eventually flagged down a passing police car, and asked for protection (possibly these are the pregnant girls mentioned in Helter Skelter).

Ruth Ann Morehouse (Ouisch)
A pregnant Ruth Ann was arrested in December of 1970 for slipping LSD in Barbara Hoyt's hamburger (Her pregnancy is four months too late to be Manson's). Paternity unknown. After being released, she fled the state to go live with her sister in Carson City, Nevada. She was last reported to be living with her husband and three children somewhere in the Midwest (Again, we would have to know if there were other pregnancies prior to this one).

Nancy Laura Pitman (Brenda Sue)
Today, she is completely disconnected from her past, and is reported to be living in the Pacific Northwest with her four children (No ages, although being in the order of the Rainbow (gold) proves she was one of the last of the faithful).

Catherine Irene Gillies (Cappy, Capistrano, Cathy Myers, Patricia Anne Burke, Patti Sue Jardin)
She joined the Family sometime in 1968. After the Family broke apart, Cappy married a biker named Dave Barton and they had two sons and two daughters. Now divorced, she lives in Oregon, She has not completely renounced Manson. (Another source claims she lives near Death Valley).


Coincidentally, David E. Smith, M.D**. and Alan J. Rose*** conducted "A Case Study of the Charles Manson Group Marriage Commune" 15 months prior to the murders. here are some relevant excerpts:

Attitudes Toward the Children

One of the most significant characteristics of the communes in general is the return to natural, almost primitive techniques of childbirth and child rearing. This commune was no different. Of the 14 females in the "immediate family," two were pregnant at the time of our observation. Both said that Manson was the father, although there was no way to verify the claim, as the sexual relations in the group were polygamous. It should be noted that Manson was held in such high regard by the girls that all of them wanted to carry his child.

In general, commune dwellers reject the concept of both pre-natal care and well-baby care, as well as birth certificates and immunizations. (editor's note:one more problem hindering my research). The mother [of one child] and the group were against circumcision, but later forced by county health officials to have the operation performed. This occurred after the child was given to foster parents while the mother was being tried for a drug violation (possession of marijuana). It was at this time, also, that the child was given a birth certificate. This latter "injustice" was viewed by the group as the most harmful, as it was felt that this was an example of certification and harassment by society. To have the child numbered and registered with the state by means of a birth certificate is a practice that most commune dwellers reject.


Sexual Practices and Child Rearing

Since the group had extremely permissive sexual attitudes, the members felt no need for conventional marriage relationships which they considered psychologically destructive. The large number of divorces in the larger society and in their own family backgrounds helped them to rationalize or reinforce this attitude.

The group functioned as "one husband and wife." They took communal responsibility for the children, although the mother cared for the infant during the early natal period with breast feeding. The entire group believed that they gave the child more attention and affection than did most families. The child was always the center of attraction and went everywhere with the group. The child was viewed as the one member of the group to most closely emulate and followe, as he alone was "untainted" by society. Charlie used the words of Jesus, "He who is like the small child shall reap the rewards of heaven," as a guide for the group's child rearing philosophy.

**Assistant Clinical Professor of Toxicology, U.C. Medical Center, San Francisco and Medical Director, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.

***Research Associate, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.
1970 and comes from the Journal of the American Society of Psychosomatic Dentistry and Medicine.(?!)I believe this is the same article that was originally published in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs.