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The Dutch have an idea that's good for debate here at home. A proposal would tax the miles driven on a car instead of the current taxes levied on roads and new car purchases. Specifically, "the plan proposes an average tax of $.07 per mile, with fees higher during rush hour and for commercial vehicles," says Live Earth. "It would use GPS systems installed in each car to track mileage and automatically bill drivers. The goal, the Dutch government says, is to cut traffic by 15% and reduce transport emissions by 10%."
One Way to Get People Out of Their Cars...
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wouldn't this turn Cars into luxury items? I remember when airfare was expensive and was a luxury.. now any jackass with a hundred bucks is on the same flight hogging my damn arm rest.
Welcome to the communist-nannie state.
@ Grendell20
Whats Communist or Nanny State about this?
You pay for what you use?
Sounds like capitalism to me, I think its a great idea.
This would be fine by me seeing as I enjoy the option of being able to bike commute thousands of miles a year while only driving a few hundred. But I'm guessing the fine folks oin outlying areas whose long commutes don't give them such alternatives might only get our of their cars to sharpen pitchforks and thread hangman's nooses for any political factions seeking to foist such a burden on them.
This is a terrible idea.
There are undeniable aspects of big brotherness that would have to be addressed to make this palatable for most people, but there are a number of advantages to such a system. Things like congestion pricing could be built into such a system so driving where traffic is the worst, which are areas typically with plenty of alternative transit options, could cost more per mile to drive in. Those same urban high traffic centers at off peak times could have pricing reduced to encourage spreading traffic throughout the day and evening more efficiently and bring in night life. As much as people like to write how ideas like this are communist, it is actually essentially replacing a socialist system of paying for driving with one that more accurately reflects market forces and real costs of road maintenance. The 405 right now looks more like waiting in a bread line to me.
Fascinating idea. I'm gonna make a bundle offering a service to hack the GPS devices. It will be a cinch.
I have to agree with Gary, the backed-up traffic on freeways during rush sure does look like a "Soviet-style" system. Why does it take so long to get home after work? We have learned to live with the horrific traffic mess and long commutes home. So we now view any solutions as unacceptable change.
Remember, the freeways system was built by the government. The government encouraged us to use it. The government eliminated mass transit and penalized those who used it. Only the poor and invalid used what was left of the mass transit system. The government subsidized gasoline and urged everyone to buy cars. It seems that the automobile-centric society was created and guided by a nanny-state.
Great idea, we just need to get mass transit back in order!
Give me a subway to the sea, give me a subway to the valley, the airport, the everywhere and I'll sell my car!
maybe in 2025... why does it take so long to make it? oh right I forgot. Caltrans is in charge..
Just do as the Danish and tax cars up to 250% based on size, weight, and efficiency. It's amazing how quickly people will be riding bikes and borrowing their parent's cars until they save up to buy one themselves in their early 30s.
Conservatives are so whiney.
"Conservatives are so whiney."
Because only a conservative would be against this being implemented, right?
It would be nice if everyone could use public transit, but for some people it's just not an option, and those people shouldn't be penalized for living far from work or having to drive their kids to schools that are out of the way.
By not penalizing people who live far from work and other services, we are essentially penalizing all the people who live closer to things, who are subsidizing the existence of cheap driving in further out places. This is the case because our current infrastructure system is mostly paid out of the general fund due to inadequate transportation revenue.
horrible idea. maybe this would work in a country that is what, a quarter of the size of Southern California. But this geographic region was not built on a "grid" system, people commute and not necessarily from at 8am and 5pm. There's no mass transit that actually runs where we need to go, much less at all hours of the day. Running my own business also means driving 25,000 miles a year...what's that $1,750 out of pocket? I'm going to guess Paul isn't an LA native. You want to pay my bill? Thanks dude!
I am an LA native and have been without car for the last 2 years. So quite your whining and pay your own bills, and if you can't then I have no interest in sponsoring your failing 25k miles a year business model with my own sales/income taxes.
Wouldn't it be easier to increase the gas tax?
You wouldn't have to deal with tracking mileage. People naturally pay more as they drive more by purchasing more gas and paying more tax.
Propose this, and it will make the gas tax more palatable. That's one way to help fill the $20 billion state deficiet for next year....
Just raising the gas tax would be a simpler solution, however in the long term it is not an adequate one. The reason is that much of the road maintenance costs we pay for is due to wear and tear, mostly a product of vehicle weight. Also road and highway expansion, which is a product of too many people driving. I think the gas tax should go up, however in time the increase in fuel efficiency and expansion of vehicles that don't burn gas at all will mean that despite increases in the tax, the revenue coming in will stagnate or even continue to fall, and we are vastly in the hole already on paying for transportation infrastructure. Right now someone driving a Tesla is not paying into our gas tax pot at all, but a Tesla is still a car that requires a parking space, space on the freeways, contributes to congestion, etc.
In conclusion I think the most fair and effective way to pay for roads and control congestion is a combination of gas taxation to encourage efficiency, and a mileage tax to ensure a revenue stream beyond just gasoline. Right now we fill the gap between gas taxes and the bill with the general fund, and this is a really regressive way to do it. We shouldn't be stuck having to raise money for transportation with sales taxes on all goods and services every time we want to get a major project done.
The answer is simple: Teach people how to drive properly.
The reason for traffic on freeways is people jamming on their brakes when more cars enter the area, instead of gently slowing down or moving to a more-flowing lane.
Traffic doesn't exist with just cars. Go to any movie theater on a weekend night, and watch when the movie is over. Tons of people all trying to get out the same exits.
Of course, this is all compounded by people who don't know the basic rule of "slower on the right, faster on the left".
That's my 2ยข.
1. Carpool, people! (Unless you hate your co-workers)
2. Support public transportation! If you (are lucky enough to) live and work close to a metro station, this is actually very convenient!
3. Even riding the bus doesn't hurt (trust me!)
4. If you can, ride your bike! You wouldn't believe what a calming effect that has in the morning...
@Cinematica: Moving into a faster moving lane (or generally changing lanes) is actually the cause for a lot of traffic. You might be faster that way, but everybody behind you is being slowed down.
I totally agree with "slower on the right, faster on the left" and people jamming on their brakes.
People driving properly will never happen =)
They need to jump on getting mass transit, specifically light rail, out already. They are talking about High speed rail system from LA to SF but what good is that going to do for LA NOW. I mean, I'm all for the high speed rail but that should be down the list. That 1+ billion can do a lot for local transit. I also think the carpool lane was a horrible idea, instead of that it should have been a light rail right in the center of the freeway (gold line).
@ Grendell20
Whats Communist or Nanny State about this?
You pay for what you use?
Sounds like capitalism to me, I think its a great idea.
sounds like a great way to tax people with less money who have to live further out in order to have reasonable rent. public transportation in LA is not equipped to support everyone's needs.