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Photo rights advocate blogger Shawn, otherwise known as discarted, recently was taking photos inside the Hollywood/Western Metro Station when two L.A. County Sheriff's approached him.
Shawn, who always wears a video camera, caught his whole 25-minute ordeal and uploaded it to YouTube yesterday (an abbreviated version is posted above), sparking off some good debate on photographer's rights vs. public safety.
According to an interview with LAist last year, the subway system's top sheriff, Commander Dan Finkelstein, said that there is no law against taking photos in the subway system. However, he did add that "since 9/11, many of the large transit agencies have grappled with that. What we have our deputies do is if someone is acting suspicious, regardless of photography, the deputy will make contact."
In this case, Officer Gylfie along with Officer Bayes made contact. Did they take it too far? We think Gylfie took it way too far when he threatened to put Shawn on the terrorist watch list. What do you think?
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taking a photo is NOT a crime.
please support the NPRO - National Photographers' Rights Organization
http://www.flickr.com/groups/laprotest/
Taking a photo may not be a crime, but there is also this principle called politeness. I try to avoid intentionally taking photos of people as it breaks their sense of privacy and freedom. If I accidentally include people in my photos I usually crop them out in the edit.
This photographer was being deliberately rebellious and offensive with the policeman, who was only trying to do his job. If it had been me, I would have apologized and said that I was just taking tourist photos of the architecture and decor.
Zach,
Knock off the hippy crap. I'm an ex hippy anyway. I hate when people all scream about their "rights." they don't want them to take photos b/c terrorists do that.
Just don't take the pic and walk away.
"They don't want them to take photos b/c terrorists do that."
Do terrorists eat? Can I not eat if the terrorists do?
"Do terrorists eat? Can I not eat if the terrorists do?"
Now that's a bit much. You don't eat a hotdog on the subway and then go back to your sleeper cell and say "Hey, eating this hotdog on the subway today made me realize we could add detonation devices here, here, and here" to which your college dropout buddies would say "yea, we see right where you're talking about".
However, a photograph of those three spots could prove to be decisive. Hence the action on the part of the Sheriff in regards to a photographer, but not a hot dog eater.
"Just don't take the pic and walk away"
No, I wont
If you dont like the rights we have I suggest you move to the middle east or Texas.
I must be a terrorist then. LAist must be part of my terrorist network for it's numerous uses of my user contributed photos to promote transit related stories in Los Angeles.
Wolverines!!!
Why didnt you just tell them why you were taking photos? They only asked you in the beginning. You could have said why you were taking photos as a journalist. Why be an instigator? "Is it illegal?" Sherriff was only doing his job, yo. I wonder if you handled the situation differently they would have responded in a like minded manner.
so the police can stop me anytime without probable cause? This is the USA not the USSR. Why should I have to explain what I do when I haven't violate any law.
I completely agree with caliking.
This just comes off as a provocateur instigating a confrontation with an officer in the course of their duties, and not as a serious investigator exposing the denial of journalists rights, or freedom of the press.
At first contact, Shaun Discarted showed less respect to the officer than he was receiving from the officer. No wonder he ended up in a confrontation.
The officer is simply protecting all of our rights to walk through the public transport without being blown up or poisoned. If he had been treated with respect and given a serious explanation, I can assume there would have been a much different course taken here. But we'll never know cause the discarted guy wasn't looking to give any respect to our officer.
Or maybe the photographer doesn't think the officer has any rights?
Could Discarted handled it better? Sure. Would it have made a difference? Maybe. Should everyone be questioned when taking photographs in public places? Probably. We can't trust anyone any longer. There are probably anywhere from 50-200 terrorists living here in the USA. That means at worst 1 in 1.5 million is a terrorist. L.A. has nearly 4 million citizens (13 million metro). That means there are anywhere from 2-9 terrorists here (worst case).
Note to terrorists:
Be respectful and you'll get all the pictures you need.
Note to the rest of us:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
I'm no terrorist but I take pictures in the subway all the time. Why? I paid for it along with all the other taxpayers. It's called Public Transportation. Since there is no law against photography and it is an art form, everyone should do it. It's high time people start fighting back. This isn't the Third Reich. Our tax money paid for the subway.
The Sheriff may have committed a crime by threatening the photographer with the FBI and the TLO. I would file a complaint with the US Attorney General and Federal Officials to see if this sheriff violated laws when he threatened the photographer.
I'm not sure there is a clear "right" side of this situation. Here you have two people here that are stubbornly exercising their rights - and both parties should have been a little more respectful of each other.
Clearly, Officer Gylfie was over the line when threatening to put discarted on a terrorist watch list, but I think he was well within his duty to "make contact" with someone he deemed to be "suspicious"
Do I think that the simple act of taking a photo near a subway should be deemed "suspicious"? No... (god knows I've done it, dozens of times, as I think the subway stations are very photogenic). But at the same time, discarted didn't do much to make himself seem any less "suspicious" by challenging Gylfie's right to stop him and then going into 'silent mode'
I feel like discarted is being an instigator here, but maybe that's a GOOD thing in this case. Our society needs instigators to "force the issue" in certain situations, just to clear up any gray area when it comes to our rights as citizens. If he's willing to be a martyr to preserve my right to take photos on the subway, he's got my support.
Nonetheless, I understand Officer Gylfie's point of view too. I just wish he'd been a little more friendly and respectful in his initial "contact". (And again, the watch list threats were over the line and uncalled for)
I agree with most of you said but
1) I believe the cop should be more "professional" since that's their job.
2) The cop abuses his "authority", instead of abide by the law, he is breaking it.
3) Making thread to a civilian is NOT okay.
stealing this from the discarted.com comments, but this related video sums it up nicely: http://tristantom.com/a-funny-take-on-photographer-harrassment/
This is so pathetic and ridiculous ... and shows how brainwashed the majority have become by the mainstream media... thinking that there's terrorists in every corner of this god forsaken nation... policing each other and fighting amongst themselves... fools!... To the government, to the police, we are all friquen terrorists... end of story..
Would anyone notice if Al Quaaeda blew up the Metro?
I would notice, I ride it nearly every day.
Would any one notice if you were detained or arrested for doing noting more wrong that upsetting a police officer? This is a video we would all protest if it came from China or North Korea, or Iran, but we laugh at the guy.
Photography is not the issue, the issue is being detained for no reason, being forced to provide "papers".
Benjamin Franklin;
"Any society that would give up liberty to gain security will deserve neither and lose both."
Beautifully put by a wise man
cops and military go through some serious terror mindfuck both in the academy and in continuous training. they also feel the permanent entitlement of having both truth and law on their sides. can't judge, a cop is a cop
I'm sorry, but Shawn, the self proclaimed "photo advocate" is actually hurting the cause by his actions. I take photos almost every day around this city.. While I've never been harassed by a cop, I've had plenty of business owners approach me wondering why I'm taking a pic of their business, or of their building. I always act friendly and just tell them that it's a hobby of mine. I always smile and say hi to people who look at me when I'm taking pictures. Sometimes they ask for a business card and I tell them again, its just a hobby, I'm not a pro. This friendly attitude usually satisfies things.. often it leads to things like them telling me the history of the subject, or even inviting me to take pics of parts that aren't usually open to the public. One time I was in an old bowling alley taking pics. This guy asks what Im doing. I tell him that I like old bowling alleys. Next thing I know he's giving me a behind the scenes tour! But responding with stuff like "am I breaking the law" is just being a dick, and then you're going to get treated like a dick. Honestly, if Shawn had replied with "Hey officers, just taking some pictures for myself.. it's just a hobby of mine", they probably would have said "ok, have a nice day". But Shawns actions are going to lead to things like them actually making it illegal to take pics down there. Way to go buddy! Next time, leave the chip on your shoulder at home. Be friendly. It will get you a lot farther.