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After three decades of dreaming and planning, it looks like the federal government is finally paying attention to an expensive MagLev train line that would carry passengers between Las Vegas and Anaheim at speeds up to 300 miles per hour along the 270-mile route. The Federal Railroad Administration will give $45 million in congressional earmarked dollars to the first phase of the route, which will go from Las Vegas to the state border in Primm, NV, according to the LA Times.
The technology, which is different from the high speed rail planned between L.A. and San Francisco, uses "electricity and magnetic force to lift trains and propel them down a guideway."
In their response to President Obama's State of the Union this year, Republicans brought up the train route, calling it wasteful spending.
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"They" who? You mean the Republicans? Color me shocked.
Oops, yeah, Republicans. It was a spirited debate!
Modern republicans consider anything aside from corporate subsidies and military spending wasteful.
Primm is probably as far as this will ever go, making it a very expensive airport connection. The DesertXpress project looks increasingly likely to connect to the CAHSR system at Palmdale. Trip times from LAUS would be about 2:15-2:30, anaheim would be only 23 minutes longer. It would also serve the Central Valley and to a lesser extent the bay area. The Maglev would be faster from Anaheim and Riverside (if they put a station there), but not much faster from LAUS or points north.
Maglev might make sense on a super heavily trafficked route where the increased cost of putting the line in can be recovered by charging premium fares. LA-Vegas is not such a corridor.
LA-Vegas is not a "super heavily trafficked route?" Are you fucking retarded or did you just move here?
Probably just retarded.
By super heavy traffic I mean the potential for greater than 150 million trips each year. That's the level that a fully-packed, two-track HSR line gets between Tokyo and Osaka. Only at that level would it make sense to add a lower capacity (HSR has much higher capacity) express line like this as a sort of "premium" service. And that's assuming that the lowball cost estimates for construction, operations and maintenance are true. Nobody has built or maintained a maglev line this long, and you're locked into one vendor, that's a huge risk.
Steel-wheel HSR makes sense for Vegas, but even then just barely, and only because it will be cheap to run trains from Palmdale, which will also serve the central valley. The line wouldn't make sense if they had to pay for the billions it's going to take to get trains from the LA basin over the mountains.
Great! Everyone naysays about new technology...just like they did with the personal computer and the cellphone. But in the end, you either get on board or be left behind.
We are already behind. We need to run and catch up before it's too late.
We were suppose to have flying cars by now...but a flying train is better than nothing.
Hear hear! We cannot have a high speed rail gap!
But we will have a space gap when the Chinese go back into space on another mission, most likely to the moon!
Right now, I'm envious of you guys in SoCal; you're going to get a set of high-speed rail lines to take you anywhere. What do we get here in Ontario (Canada)? Bubkus! And we need high speed rail in Canada, in particular between Toronto and Ottawa, as well as electric commuter rail (people in one part of Toronto are tired of diesel trains, and want them gone yesterday!) You guys may have a right-wing governor, but at least his eyes are fixed on the future, unlike his fellow members of the GOP. I'm crossing my fingers for both projects to go through, and hope that they do-good luck!
Hmmm. I love trains, but I was unaware that maglev could climb the grade up the Cajon Pass. Anyone?
You're right, this is not wasteful spending!
That's exactly what we need to do right now start spending on a project that will take 10 years to finish while everything else is falling a part.
Deficit spending. Try that in your own life see how it goes.
The mortgage crisis is squarely attributed to those who took up deficit spending at home.
How are they doing?
Oh that's right, the govt bailed them out.
How's the 405, the 5, the 101, the 110, the 10?
They run smoothly!
So let's start building a train from LA to Vegas (the city POTUS doesn't want anyone to go to, it's a Muslim thing) instead of fixing our alread f'd up infrastructure.
Who cares about the loss of commerce because our poor infrastructure and and traffic delays. Let's build a train.
Can we hire ACORN to run it too!
Of course all of the employees have to be part of a union so nothing will be OVER priced.
Drink the kool aid everyone, keep drinking.
"Deficit spending. Try that in your own life see how it goes."
Ever heard of the WPA you ignorant fool? They built both the Golden Gate and the Bay Bridge through deficit spending. In fact, most of the wonderful, overused, decaying public infrastructure (roads, bridges, sidewalks, water reservoirs) we have enjoyed in our lifetime comes from deficit spending and job creation from the Great Depression. Get ready for a shocker, not only did they come from deficit spending but, *GASP*, from tax dollars! What, you think it all comes from thin air?
Also, ACORN does community organizing, not project management and Unions don't set the price for anything but their own safety.
Turn off FoxNews for a second and read a history book and take some public management lessons, you regurgatative moron. I'm tired of reading your lies, you anti-american fuck.
Paul, I work 10 hours a day, and my breaks don't include Fox. But I do read news, WSJ, NYT, and Politico mixed in with some other google news links.
I'm more american than you, because you're one of those fuck faces that puts down everyone who disagrees with you. My method on this site is a to be militant with the commenters because from the beginning you've all been militant and assholes with me.
And that's to expected from a bunch left wing spolet mommy breast fed pansies, such as yourself.
Unions do set prices, it's called exorbent wages.
Obviously you're as smart as the turd that you exert from your other mouth because you missed my whole point on so MANY other prdouctive and usefull ways to spend money.
Maybe you should go back to school, i take it you dropped out after the 4th grade and missed reading comprehension.
Thanks for the respond.
Do me one last favor, next time you respond to me, wash your mouth out so I don't have to smell your breath after you spent the night ball washing Obama and other elected crooks.
So much for constructive criticism trojan. Maybe you should try commenting on stories in the OC register, seems like you may run into more like minded people there. I agree with Paul. Obviously projects like this are extremely expensive, but so was building the interstates and other vital infrastructure we use today.
How is it that countries like China, and the UAE are building great infrastructure for their countries and we can't manage to do the same here in the US?
By UAE do you mean Dubai?
Dubai is near bankrupt and needed to borrow money from their cousins within the UAE.
They've also cut back a lot of their spending.
China has cheap labor. It doesn't cost them as much because of the cheap labor and the fact they don't need to borrow, meaning no interest expense.
Also, because everything is govt owned or controlled, they have vast amount of govt capital. Since 30% of their population they need to share the wealth to maintaing their tyrannical control, so in addition to farm subsidies they send the rural folks out to the less populated regions to lay down train tracks.
We don't have a reserve of any kind and we don't have cheap labor.
What we do have are infrastructural needs for NOW.
Here's an exmple, you're a local company that delivers within the city. You can deliver 4 orders a day with our current traffic, but you delive 8 if there was less traffic, i.e. more roads more usefull pub. transport.
If that one company can double their deliveries they can hire more people, they buy more goods, they pay more in taxes, the additional employees pay income tax, sales tax (bec. they can shop now) and straight on down.
That freeway impact would be NOW.
If don't fix out traffic problem that guy can deliver only 2 orders a day in 10 years instead of the 4. Now he's making less, employing less, and paying less in taxes.
LA to LV takes 10 years.
What do you think we need?
Wanna fix the traffic problem?
Build lots of rail that is fast, comfortable, convenient, like they've done in most of Europe and it will inspire the average person to leave their car at home.
But what do I know, I'm just a Socialist dupe.
I've never called you a dupe.
How will a rail system to LV in 10 years fix the traffic problem now?
I'd lean more to supporting the idea of the expediting the "subway to the sea".
Funny how the guy who guzzles the kool-aid by the gallon tells everyone that's what THEY are doing.
Wanna fix the 405, the 5, the 101, the 110, the 10? There's only one way...it's called imminent domain. THAT will go over very well won't it? Years of battles in court, paying property owners way too much for their homes and just to get a right-of-way. Brilliant!
Wanna fix those freeways? It's time to consider technology instead of concrete and steel.
I'm not just talking about L.A. to L.V.
Think Europe. Think (Euro) rail pass for a week, a month a year, and not even have to own a car. Or rent a car or keep your personal car garaged exept on special occasions.
That's what most of Europe does. But then they're used to $6-$7 dollar, (or Euro) a gallon, (or liter). And they built up their mass transit infrastructure decades ago. Which is what we should be doing now before it gets even more expensive to do.
Why don't you spend your time at Free Republic instead, you brainwashed neocon fucktard? This site's not for you, or don't you get it yet?
And you don't watch Faux Noise? Judging by your anti-Obama bullshit, I never would have guessed. You may not be a Faux Noise watcher, but what you spew sounds like it.
Geezus! Should we go back to the horse and buggy?
You want to fix the 405, the 5, the 10, and the 110? Why? So we can remain hostages to foreign oil? We are like a Heroin addict, the more oil we consume, the more we need and most of it comes from regions that we cannot control. Yet we spend billions to build and maintain a military force in order to insure our supply of foreign oil is secure. The bombs we manufacture fall on hapless civilians. And those who survive curse us everyday. We create terrorism, thus we must spend billions more to fight it. In the end, the freeways, the military expenditures and the money to fight the terrorist we create, far exceed the tax revenues collected by the US Treasury.
A Maglev Train is far cheaper, fiscally responsible, and far more humane to the world than our oil addiction.
So you're solution to our dependence on foreign oil is to build a train from LA to Las Vegas?
A train, if I cross my fingers, we can use in 10 years?
Wow, I can't believe I missed that!
You're soooo right. Building a train from LA to Las Vegas will be the solution to the traffic all over the state!
And BINGODINGO, you can double stack the freeways. You can build trains that go along the freeways with proper mass transit on the streets.
If I wasn't attacking the POTUS that looks like Diane Watson, I'm sure you all would agree with me. But, you've been brainwashed by your liberal friends, family, and teachers, to COMPLETELY disagree with everyone on opposite political spectrums as you.
A high speed train to Vegas: wouldn't it be easier to just build a giant pneumatic tube and send all our money to Nevada without having to actually go there.
maglev? come on. here is a solid $45 mil down the toilet. the maglev exhibition train in shanghai is cool - but only goes 19 miles or so (from pudong to the airport - in pudong) at a cost of 1.34 Bil. since land acquisition is not a problem in china the costs are much lower than would be in the US. that would put a train to LV in at a solid $15 Bil before any land acquisition. we need to look at more practical solutions for long distance travel.
Kin of Kain sounds like a stooge for the so called wasteful spending far right pundits,if China build a maglev
system in a developing country,we can do the same...take your head out of the sand and realize the benefits of such a system to both cash strapped California and Nevada..this will pay for itself in the nearby future you try driving that route on any given weekend bud...
If you actually read my comment I'm a proponent of connecting HSR to Vegas. Just not a proponent of this particular mode of HSR. A steel wheel line connecting at Palmdale makes fiscal sense. It will be more than fast enough to compete with airlines. If they build it to a full 220mph spec, you could easily get the trip time down under 2hrs. That would be a game changer for the economy of Las Vegas, it would reduce, if not eliminate the need for them to build a new airport at Primm. It would serve not just SoCal, but also the Central Valley. A spur connecting at Mojave, bypassing Palmdale and Victorville, could even bring trip times from SF, San Jose, and Sacramento down under the magic number of 3hrs, meaning such a line could connect the entire state of California to Las Vegas.
All for way, way, way less money than building maglev to Anaheim. It makes no sense to throw money at maglev, which even if it ends up working as well as they say it will, will still not be as useful as a traditional steel-wheel line connecting to the CAHSR system.
I'm far from right wing, but that doesn't mean I want to throw money away.
Amtrak used to have a line that went from Union Station to LV. It was called "The Silver Dollar". It wasn't all that fast, but you had a full bar, good food, and it was usually a rolling party.
A lot more fun than driving it.
I'm surprised it wasn't more popular.
Your government usually spends money on wasteful death machines (the B-1 bomber, stealth bomber, F-117 stealth plane, F-22 Raptor, Joint Strike Fighter)-building something that serves life isn't so bad, or wasteful.
Is the news media conflicted…check out this local story which says different…
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ralstons-flash/2009/sep/17/feds-gibbons-wrong-maglev-funding/
Thanks
So the feds are doling out $45 million for the proposed maglev Las Vegas high speed rail train, putting it on the taxpayers' credit card (it simply adds to the national debt we will pay forever). Great.
And how much is the train projected to cost? $12 BILLION! Let's see -- that $45 million is 0.0375% of the total cost. No, not 3.75%. $45 million is less than four one-hundredth of one percent of the projected cost.
Furthermore, anyone who believes the train will cost ONLY $12 billion hasn't been following this passenger rail con game for the last 100 years -- the proponents ALWAYS grossly understate the true cost (to get the project started). Our most recent example my San Diego County's Sprinter light rail train that came in MANY TIMES higher than its original projected cost.
Lastly, the train's ticket revenue will not cover even its annual OPERATING costs -- let alone the initial capital costs, or the cost of replacing worn out rolling stock and track 30 years down the (rail)road. No passenger train in the country – perhaps in the world – covers its operating costs with fare box revenue.
The good news is that I doubt this pipe dream will ever be built. The money simply will not appear. But regardless, we taxpayers will pay interest forever on the $45 million federal seed money – spent by proponents largely to raise more money!
Oh, BTW, the Vegas maglev train will be useless for San Diegans. It takes one hour, five minutes to fly from San Diego to Vegas. Add airport hassles at both ends and you might have another 1.5 hours total.
But for us locals to use the Vegas train, we have to first motor to Anaheim, a drive which itself can take 1.5-2.5 hours. It's a lot quicker for most of us to go to the airport for the quick flight. And with Southwest, it's dirt cheap (doubtless less than the train ticket will cost).
The final irony? If this boondoggle actually is built, we Californians will end up subsidizing (via federal and perhaps state subsidies) a train to take people to Vegas to spend and/or lose their California paychecks. Works for the Vegas economy!
I'm opposed to this project being mag-lev, I think we could go with steel wheel track for a fraction of the cost and almost just as fast. I consider my self pro-rail, but am disappointed this got funding simply because I don't think it is a good idea in it's proposed form and there are more deserving projects.
However I think some of your arguments against rail generally are flawed. For one thing you site cheap tickets with South West, well that is a ticking clock. They bought fuel futures that run out in a couple years at a value less than half of what fuel costs today. When that runs out they will have no choice but to jack up ticket prices significantly. And while trains rarely cover their own cost entirely, it's somewhat unfair to hold that against rail while turning a blind eye to all the subsidies of other modes (airports and highways and airline bailouts). When was the last time a highway paid for it's cost of maintenance? Yes there is a gas tax, but that woefully small amount hardly covers what we spend on highways. Anyone who says we should not build rail because it does not pay for it self should be speaking in the same breath of adding toll booths to all major highways.
There are two days when demand is high for a train run between LA and Vegas -- Friday and Sunday. The rest of the time the demand is FAR too low to justify such an extravagant expenditure.