LAist: Prop 8 Protests Begin to Thin Out*

GarySe7en

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:20:58 -0800

http://www.blogger.com/ Free and pretty easy to setup to just have something basic.

propstopinc

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:25:31 -0800

Thank you for the info - Was not sure how blogging really worked.

GarySe7en

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:32:11 -0800

propstopinc, I suggest getting a blog and linking to it with excerpted quotes if you feel that strongly about something. A comment board isn't exactly the most ideal format for 3 solid pages of material in rapid succession without line breaks.

propstopinc

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:54:03 -0800

Again, to the last comment, Mormons represent the opinions of the largest majority of civilization. So you are going to go on hating Mormons because they have been more effective than others through their financial contributions. Some of the writers need to realize that it is not the Mormon Church that has donated but its membership. Yes, members were highly encouraged to fight for this particular cause because as we see it (wrong or right) this has moral implications that we feel will hurt the family unit as God intended. However, you must realize that it was the members themselves who decided to donate and give their time for this proposition. Not all Mormons donated or rallied in this cause. The church would not kick you out or take your membership for not participating. Make no mistake, if the Mormon Church, as some imply, was itself to back the YES on prop 8 campaign, it would not have even been a close race. The members of their own free will contributed. The last comment says if you love me why don't you stay out of my relationship. Remember, traditional marriage is what is being challenged not the other way around. (Judges overturned the voice of the people). The position of protecting marriage as we know it is one of defense there is not offensive agenda that has been imposed upon you. It is your action that imposes upon what has always been the foundation of civilization to change it to something else. WE ARE IN DEFENCE NOT IN OFFENCE. Who would have thought the day would come when we would have to defend the family unit as we have always known it to be. It is a ridiculous notion. Without such any voice in opposition could not even be heard. YOU HAVE COME AND STRUCK AT THE ROOTS OF TRADITIONAL FAMILIES AND THEN SPREAD HATE AND PERSECUTE AS WE DEFEND OURSELVES ONLY THOUGH CIVIL MEANS AND OUR VOTE S. YOU SIMPLY WANT TO IMPOSE YOUR WILL AND HAVE OTHERS NOT OF THE SAME OPINION DO NOTHING. Redefining marriage does have repercautions that will change how religions perform marriage, how we choose to adopt and teach children etc. It opens doors to law suits for discrimination and the list goes on for how this will change traditional marriage and religious institutions practices. You do not understand it is not about wanting to take anything away from you, because you never had it to begin with. Thus the point - Call your unions something else. Trust me; all in favor of traditional marriage do not care if you receive all the benefits of marriage. However, do not try to redefine marriage and slowly change the structure of religions and humanity that has existed from the beginning of time and in the beginning of time needed no clarification or justification in its unions. You say the Mormons were the largest contributors, so you ignore the intent and the real vote of the 95% of non Mormons who were also against same sex marriage and ultimately caused to pass the Prop. If you remember right, we voted on this once before and without the money of many Mormons the masses disagreed with you then as well. So If YES on prop 8 had not passed and using your own devices, would Mormons or anyone else be justified in protesting every Gay establishment or those who donated the largest amounts of money for the NO cause? Mormons would never do such. You should all be ashamed of your mob like actions and how you have represented your cause. IS THERE ANYONE WHO VOTED NO ON THE PROP THAT IS ASHAMED?? All should be ashamed to be affiliated with the marches and the movement of the NO campaign. You have persecuted those who do not retaliate for their opinions. You have bullied your voice upon the people. Why not use the energies to create law to get the few extra rights that you say traditional marriage couples have as opposed to trying to change what others hold as sacred (be it wrong or right). We do not retaliate and so in ignorance you go on chanting and actually are the only advocated of hate, while the Mormons walk by and do nothing. The justifications for your actions are amazing. We have not tried to get in your relationship; you have tried to get in ours. I will say it again – Mormons and hate – that is ridiculous and each of you know it. The Mormon Church is one of the few organized religions that has never persecuted another church or individual physically or from our pulpits. We are taught to love, we have loved, we continue to love, and we continue to turn the other cheek. We have not retaliated. If you have no religious convictions – where does your belief system and moral code come from, because I know of no religious leaders, organizations and no philosopher or otherwise who would agree with your ways. THINK ABOUT IT. This fight is diminishing, but I cannot stand by and watch you put hate and Mormons together without a sound response. It seems the voices are silencing. Please, show me how you justify your actions. I am open to the conversasion. A Mormon (Russ M.)

propstopinc

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:30:50 -0800

Again, to the last comment, Mormons represent the opinions of the largest majority of the world. So you are going to go on hating Mormons because they have been more effective than others through their financial contributions and convicitons. Some of the writers need to realize that it is not the Mormon Church that has donated but its membership. Yes, members were highly encouraged to fight for this particular cause because as the leaders see it (wrong or right)this has moral implications that they/we feel will hurt the family unit as God intended. However, you must realize that it was the members themselves who decided to donate and give their time for this proposition. Not all Mormons donated or rallied in this cause. The church would not kick you out or take your membership for not participating. Make no mistake, if the Mormon Church, as some imply, was itself to back the YES on prop 8 campaign, it would not have even been a close race. THE MORMON CHURCH COULD HAVE BOUGHT THIS VOTE IF IT WAS THE CHURCH ITSELF THAT IMPOSED IT'S WILL. The members of their own free will contributed. The last comment says if you love me why don't you stay out of my relationship. Remember, traditional marriage is what has been challenged not the other way around. (Judges overturned the voice of the people). The position of protecting marriage as we know it is one of defense there is not offensive agenda that has been imposed upon you. It is your action that imposes upon what has always been the foundation of civilization to change it to something else. WE ARE IN DEFENCE NOT IN OFFENCE. Who would have thought the day would come when we would have to defend the family unit as we have always known it to be. It is a ridiculous notion. Without such any voice in opposition could not even be heard. YOU HAVE COME AND STRUCK AT THE ROOTS OF TRADITIONAL FAMILIES AND THEN SPREAD HATE AND PERSECUTE AS WE DEFEND OURSELVES ONLY THOUGH CIVIL MEANS AND OUR VOTES. YOU SIMPLY WANT TO IMPOSE YOUR WILL AND HAVE OTHERS NOT OF THE SAME OPINION DO NOTHING. Redefining marriage does have or certainly can have repercautions that will change how religions perform marriage, how we choose to adopt and teach children etc. It opens doors to law suits for discrimination and the list goes on for how this will change traditional marriage and religious institutions practices. You do not understand it is not about wanting to take anything away from you, because you never had it to begin with. Thus the point - Call your unions something else. Trust me; all in favor of traditional marriage do not care if you receive all the benefits of marriage. However, do not try to redefine marriage and slowly change the structure of religions and humanity that has existed from the beginning of time and in the beginning of time needed no clarification or justification for its unions. You say the Mormons were the largest contributors, so you ignore the intent and the real vote of the 95% of our voting group of non Mormons who were also against same sex marriage and ultimately caused to pass the Prop. If you remember right, we voted on this once before and without the money of many Mormons the masses disagreed with you then as well. So If YES on prop 8 had not passed and using your own devices, would Mormons or anyone else be justified in protesting every Gay establishment or those who donated the largest amounts of money for the NO cause? Mormons would never do such. You should all be ashamed of your mob like actions and how you have represented your cause. IS THERE ANYONE WHO VOTED NO ON THE PROP THAT IS ASHAMED?? All should be ashamed to be affiliated with the marches and the movement of the NO campaign. You have persecuted those who do not retaliate for their opinions. You have bullied your voice upon the people. Why not use the energies to create law to get the few extra rights that you say traditional marriage couples have as opposed to trying to change what others hold as sacred (be it wrong or right). We do not retaliate and so in ignorance you go on chanting and actually are the only advocated of hate, while the Mormons walk by and do nothing. The justifications for your actions are amazing. We have not tried to get in your relationship; you have tried to get in ours. I will say it again – Mormons and hate – that is ridiculous and each of you know it. The Mormon Church is one of the few organized religions that has never persecuted another church or individual physically or from our pulpits. We are taught to love, we have loved, we continue to love, and we continue to turn the other cheek. We have not retaliated. If you have no religious convictions – where does your belief system and moral code come from, because I know of no religious leaders, organizations and no philosophers or otherwise who would agree with your ways. THINK ABOUT IT. This fight is diminishing, but I cannot stand by and watch you put hate and Mormons together without a sound response. It seems the voices are silencing. Please, show me how you justify your actions. I am open to the conversasion. We do love you, you are our brothers and sisters, but we will defend the holy institution of marriage to hold it as our Ideal as our standard and as the way humanity has been and will be brought to be. Can you respect this? A Mormon (Russ M.)

polaroidgirl

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:47:00 -0800

tballw72: I stand corrected!!!!! trojan2002: I've heard that $1 out of every $4 spent by Yes on 8 came from the Mormon church. So while many other churches & orgs may have been in favor of 8 they did not have the same impact fiscally... propstopinc: If you love me so much stay out of my relationship - it's personal.

propstopinc

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:19:45 -0800

There are two sides to this issue and both sides see things through their own eyes, both are as passionate about how they feel. However, one side has run a clean and effective campaign and one side has not. One side has been persecuted,slanderd and had property distroyed and the other has not,(not by a Mormon). One side fights this battle because they believe (wrong or right) that the issue can affect future generations of children, because they feel Mom and Dad are the ideal (Wether we always have the ideal or not. One side cares more about their immediate self interest and instead of fighting for all the same rights under a domestic partnership, intead wants to share and mock what religious organizatins believe wiht all their souls is a partnerhsip not only with Man and Wife but also with God. (Be it wrong or right).Call your union something else, Mormons want you to have freedoms just not ones that spill over into redifining what has always been what we consider the proper vehicle for raising children. The Mormons stood up for what the mass majority of the world today and througout all time has had as its God given and nature appointed bond to bring and raise life, and without such no opposing voice could even chime. One side has lied to themselves and deliberately seeks to deceive others, because no one who has known many Mormons can put hate in the same sentence with them. Mormons have stood up for traditons that have always exhisted and that are the desires of the masses, yet they stand alone to be persecuted as the easiest of non retaliating targets, kind of like beating up an old lady who tells you to eat your vegetables. Mormons have shown forth nothing but love, they only oppose the very real repercussions that will come to others values and belief systems through same sex marriage. Mormons teachings are and will always be to embrace and love their brothers and sisters be it gay or straight. Each and every person who marches in front of a temple will be responsible and accountable for how gays treat Mormons in the future and responsible for the future intolerance and HATE that some support and perpetuate. The sad thing is those who know Mormons do this with the realization that the Mormons they have known have always shown love to them. I know this without questioning and so do you, so does all who know Mormons. Mormons have endured so much more than this (do you really think you can tarnish their credibility)? It is wrong however, that LDS members should suffer (minimal as it may be)because they have been a greater voice and more effective than the other 95% of the voters who are resonsible for the win also. If the desire is the same - it does not matter how much money is contributed. Can you hate Mormons because they are more dedicated to what they believe or more organized than others may be. Would it be right for Mormons to start persecuting the largest contributers of the no on 8 campaign? I have an idea you may all like to hear. Since gays are a minority group in the U.S. and the world, how about they take your blacklist of those who helped Prop 8 and pull for all in favor of traditional marraige to show their support by using these individuals businesses and services whenever possible since you have tried to hurt them for expressing their opinions and civil liberties. (Remember, this would be a defence only). If I was not a Mormon (an easy target since we simply ARE TAUGHT to turn the other cheek) - I may be compelled to take it a step further and influence all straight people who support 8 ,to ban doing business with gays and thereby ruin self employeed gays. This can be a way those who support Prop 8 can repay Mormons for effectively leading the cause in their stead. I think many would show their appreciation in this way as well as their dissatisfaction for how the gay movement has persecuted like a mob those who with class and LOVE have opposed them. (Of course I would never do the latter becasue I AM A MORMON) Mormons and hate - that is almost funny. All I can say is we love you, please don’t hit me when I tell you. From a Mormon

nwjeff

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:21:22 -0800

Saturday is a huge national March 10:30 west coast 1:30 east coast so to say thinning out no beginning to get bigger. One poster was wondering why the Mormons' well they supported it with 20 plus million dollars and had a letter read in all their temples that Prop 8 needs to be supported with money and energy. That is why the Mormon church is being singled out and rightly so. In order for marriage rights to happen a two part strategy of open in your face activism as well as behind the scenes work must occur. It will be a process. Like the AIDS crisis that was ignored, only when people become active and choose to not remain silent will change occur.

Johnny

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:46:12 -0800

I don't know if this is related but I was at El Guapo last night on Melrose and there was a huge group that marched down it with a large police escort.

tballw32

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:33:50 -0800

polaroidgirl... contrary to popular belief, downtown is not a ghost town on weekends. there will be a march on the streets saturday and downtown streets are packed throughout chinatown, little tokyo, olvera street, and down broadway on weekends.

echo2

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:13:00 -0800

This report is incorrect. I was there last night at San Vincente and Santa Monica, and there were several hundred people who marched from that block up Melrose and back down Beverly.

trojan2002

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:21:15 -0800

I'll probably get A LOT of flack for this, but I don't understand why just the Mormons are being "attacked"? I'm for equal rights, and voted against Prop 8, but its starting to piss me off that all the "angry" protests are targeted at mormons. Even if they as a church organization are against gay marriage, it doesn't they should be the only ones targeted. TO me it seems like this has turned into a bigoted attack against a right wing religion. MLK Jr, preached protesting in peace and that was why he accomplished so much. He brought attention to his cause by pointing out the flaws in people but in an intelligent fashion. No on Prop 8 is not losing my support, but it is making less sympathetic and empathetic towards those it affects. And, I doubt I am the only one that feels this way. Catholics voted Yes on 8, Hispanics voted Yes on 8, African Americans voted Yes on 8, but NONE of those groups are being attacked. Yet, individually those groups out number Mormon voters in the state of CA.

polaroidgirl

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:17:01 -0800

there was a big showing in NYC yesterday... I think someone already mentioned this but doesn't City Hall seem like a bad location for a Saturday protest? That area will be a ghost town.

CA_Tallguy

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:30:05 -0800

Yes, tballw32 got it right. This protest was called by a new group/website, and the word didn't get out. I have been protesting there for weeks so I went, and was SHOCKED by the media presence. Apparently they sent out a press release on PRNewswire beforehand, so either that or some media savvy people got the media there. Unfortunately, word didn't get out very far in the gay community though.

tballw32

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:07:30 -0800

yesterday's event was not thoroughly publicized. i only saw one flyer and didn't see anything about it online or anywhere else.

rachel80

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:45:50 -0800

i think everyone can't show up to every protest, unless they have a money tree and don't have to work. :) but i think tonight's protest of el coyote and Saturday's protest will make up for it. it's also refreshing to see folks still protesting during the week too.

Royps

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:45:35 -0800

I think as the fury over the passage of prop 8 subsides, these spontaneous protests will naturally shrink. It's a good thing. It means our (LGBT + allies) community has finally moved beyond the anger stage and is ready to tackle this beast head on. It's up to community leaders/organizations now to make sure we don't become complacent again, and to formulate a strategy that can harness all this grassroots energy towards a useful purpose. I'm hopeful they can do it, but I'm also not holding my breath.