LAist: It's Official: Prop 8 Passes

truthspeaker23

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:57:18 -0800

More Truth: 1st Amendment: The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Supreme Court decisions interpreting the Constitution are final, EXCEPT when they are OVERTURNED by a constitutional amendment. That means that even if the California Court overurns Prop 8, then the U.S. Supreme Court must rule that they overstepped their bounds. Justice Owen Roberts wrote in a unanimous opinion that "to condition the solicitation of aid for the perpetuation of religious views or systems upon a license, the grant of which rests in the exercise of a determination by state authority as to what is a religious cause, is to lay a forbidden burden upon the exercise of liberty protected by the Constitution." This means that there is no basis for any church losing their tax exempt status for perpetuating their religious views about Prop 8.

truthspeaker23

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:40:59 -0800

You know the funny thing is, you are so dumb, so as to actually believe that if I believed you, I would be afraid. I would actually fear that your death was near, because those legions of demons would turn on you and destroy you, after you caused them to get their butts kicked. It is truth, that the Word of God, will cause you to turn to God or turn to depravity. But, let's talk about LIES. Try addressing these facts about the true opponents of Prop 8. You know the ones who donated millions to the No on 8 campaign, members of NAMBLA. www.nambla.org NAMBLA's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships by: building understanding and support for such relationships; educating the general public on the benevolent nature of man/boy love; cooperating with lesbian, gay, feminist, and other liberation movements; supporting the liberation of persons of all ages from sexual prejudice and oppression. The North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) was founded in December 1978 and is an activist homosexual and pedophilia coalition group. Their primary aim is stated to be the overturn of statutory rape laws and reduction of “age of consent” laws that require a child be of a certain age (which varies by state) before they can agree to sexual intercourse. CPUSA member Harry Hay, who is widely accredited as one of the founders of the gay rights activist movement in the United States, in his lifetime was a frequent speaker at NAMBLA conferences. Poet Allen Ginsberg was another famous members of NAMBLA. The International Gay & Lesbian Archives, the world's largest research collection on gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered activism, has recognized several NAMBLA members for their contributions to the gay rights movement. Harry Hay, a perverted pedophile activist in the cause of personal liberation, founded the first lasting gay group in North America, the Mattachine Society, in 1950. He also founded the Radical Faeries, inspired by ideas and rituals of Native American peoples. Recalling his own experiences as a gay boy growing up in California, Hay spoke out on issues of man/boy love. Harry, founder in 1950 of the first American gay group to survive, the Mattachine Society, cofounder of the Gay Liberation Front, Southern California chapter, in 1969, cofounder of the Radical Faeries in 1979, father of the U.S. gay movement, and grandfatherly icon of gay liberation, died on October 24, 2002, at the age of ninety. Harry was a vocal and courageous supporter of NAMBLA and intergenerational sexual relationships.

PantheonZeus

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:06:21 -0800

THE DEMONIC CURSE that was activated by your keyboard keys A,S,D,F, J, K, L and the curse placed by myself and legions of fellow Satan worshippers are now invading your home, truthspeaker! As sun sets -- they grow in numbers and will be with forever more. The Lords of Darkness are coming for you. aaaa haaa haaaaaa !!

truthspeaker23

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:59:12 -0800

You can't handle the TRUTH. Let's hear from Albert Einstein, surely his beliefs are purely secular. "The higghest principles for our aspirations and judgments are given to us in the Jewish-Christian religious tradition. Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward trtuh and understanding. This source of feeling, however springs from the SPHERE OF RELIGION.While it is true that scientific results ar entirely independent from religious or moral consideration, those individuals to whom we owe the great creative achievements of science were ALL OF THEM imbued with the truly religious conviction that this unviverse of ours is something perfect and susceptible to rational striving for knowledge."- Albert Einstein By the way, anyway you slice it, the Bible makes for a more interesting read. Those who can't handle it, usually stay away, because the truth hurts. I would say that there has to balance, or else Destination Hell for the non-believer would be a lonely place. Sorry, to disappoint but sadly, Hell will be lonely dispite the fact that it will have over a billion permanent residents. By jrb[120] | 11/17/08 04:50PM- That, and pedophilia, and incest, and polygamy. And I said And homosexuality, since they have pararell lives and since the polygamist in Utah and NAMBLA donated millions to the No on 8 cause. Also, since a banned homosexual Catholic priest came on TV and debated badly, failing to mention that 95% of the Catholic pedophile priests were homosexual.

Linkracer

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:59:18 -0800

I have an idea everyone! Let's try and keep the Bible quotes out of the comment threads and stick to non-fiction reference sources when supporting our opinions. If I wanted a tale of tragedy, love, life, and the supernatural, I'd read Twilight or Harry Potter.

jrb

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:02:40 -0800

Gosh liespeaker23, you misquote me as much as you misquote your precious bible. Do you believe in the 10 commandments written in this book that allege is so sacred to you? Do you remember this one? "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour." I'm sure that you'll dispute that you have done that, but I'll be happy save the link on the convo and let others decide. See you on the blogs liespeaker23. And please, get some couciling.

truthspeaker23

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:56:26 -0800

By jrb: "That, and pedophilia, and incest, and polygamy." And homosexuality, since they have pararell lives and since the polygamist in Utah and NAMBLA donated millions to the No on 8 cause. Also, since a banned homosexual Catholic priest came on TV and debated badly, failing to mention that 95% of the Catholic pedophile priests were homosexual. But now, we will deal witht the facts of an affliction. However, if you don't think you need help, you have company in that belief and this type of think9ing is shared with drug addicts and alcoholics, a common escape for homosexuals, but hear what professionals have to say. This does not make you a less valued human being. It just means that maybe there is a PYSCHOSEXUAL GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER. "A common argument is that an inclination to homosexuality is inborn and immutable. It is widely believed that the public will become more accepting of homosexuality if they are convinced that it is inborn and immutable. For example, neuroscientist and homosexual Simon Levay stated: "...people who think that gays and lesbians are born that way are also more likely to support gay rights."[3] Research into the issue of the origins of homosexuality suggests that adoptive brothers are more likely to both be homosexuals than the biological brothers, who share half their genes which suggests that homosexuality is not genetically caused. [4][5][6] This data prompted the journal Science to report "this . . . suggests that there is no genetic component, but rather an environmental component shared in families".[7][8][9] However, in regards to psychosocial and biological theories in regards to the origin of homosexuality, Columbia University psychiatry professors Drs. William Byrne and Bruce Parsons stated in 1994: "There is no evidence that at present to substantiate a biological theory. [T]he appeal of current biological explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data".[10] Dr. Tahir I. Jaz, M.D., Winnipeg, Canada states: "The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organisations, who politicise the issue of homosexual origins . In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey....However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way.[11]" Roman 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. 27-And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly (not good or suitable but perverted), and receiving in themselves that compense of their error was meet. 28- And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. 29- Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, 30 -Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents

jrb

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:50:13 -0800

Nice try ts. But, you're the one bringing it up all the time not me. That, and pedophilia, and incest, and polygamy. I figure you must be trying to bare your soul. Get all that old history of yours out in the open. Good for you! It will only hurt you more if you keep it inside. I'm not the one you should be talking to though. You should seek professional help for these problems. Jesus can't solve all those probems for you. Religion is a nice crutch when you need to get through a rough patch, but really, for a rest of your life solution to these things you should get help. Nice talking to you ts. Just remember, it works if you work it!

truthspeaker23

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:41:36 -0800

By jrb: You talk about my father raping me so often when you don't even know me or my past. Don't worry jrb help is on the way, just stay tuned, I'm in your house and inside your head. The Word of God will produce fruit. I must have struck the truth, but please read above, it says nothing about your father raping you. But, you just did. Must be true. Ouch. Or, you could be one of thousands of gay boys, who are the product of homosexual pedophile Catholic priests and now you have a psychosexual gender identity disorder. GO with it. No evidence of a GAY gene for you to go with. By, the way, you like most, do not have a clue about what right you personally wish to gain if Yes on 8 did not pass. Oops it passed again. You know, they say the trauma and abuse from gay disorders displays itself in many ways. You know, drug abuse, alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, and the unnatural use of their bodies. And with men, it often gets into bestiality and paraphilia. Roman 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. 27-And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly (not good or suitable but perverted), and receiving in themselves that compense of their error was meet. 28- And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. 29- Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, 30 -Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents. GOD KNEW YOU AND YOUR PAIN LONG BEFORE YOU WERE BORN AND HE LEFT HIS WORD REGARDING IT 1,000S OF YEARS AGO. WHAT AN AWESOME GOD TO SERVE.

jrb

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:52:40 -0800

"If I don't believe that a man is supposed to use his rectum in such a gross manner, you can't force it upon me" Some one forced it on you? Was it your father? You talk about my father raping me so often when you don't even know me or my past, I figure you must be projecting something that happened to you onto me. I understand why you hate gays now. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Understand, rape has nothing to do with homosexuality. People who rape are getting a sadistic thrill from the act, so it has little to do with one's sexual orientation. Please seek help ts. this doesn't have to poison you for the rest of your life.

jrb

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:47:54 -0800

You want to talk about lies? The entirety of the Yes on 8 campaign was lies. Christians lying for Jesus, you must be so proud.

truthspeaker23

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:15:33 -0800

Imitation is flattery, and most of the gay peopl etry to do is a poor imitation of heterosexuality. If you do not beleive in the Bible, then you surely do not believe in marriage. At the start of the human race, at the outset of Sacred Writ, is ordained the divine origin and Sanctity of Marriage. One Man and One Woman, One Flesh. You are entrenched in the heterosexual life, from your birth and your parents, to any desire to have a child, and the desire to marry. In your mind, polygamy hurts no one, incest marriage between adult sister and sister hurts no one, and incest marriage between father and adult daughter hur tno one. Admit it, or do you judge yourself as better. The admonition of all the above and homosexuality originate in the Bible. So, I suggest you grow up and accept the truth, Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid in California and under federal law. You have no basis of homosexuality in relgion, so stop reaching and the constitution does not protect you. You must be speaking of the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certian unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Endowed by their Creator, God, the Bible, and God says that homosexuality is an abomination and that man shall not sleep with blood relatives. Man shall not have sex or marry blood relatives and the same sex. I guess in your immoral world, polygamy, incest between siblings and parents, and pedophile marriages are moral. They are all against the law and so is same-sex marriage, and it all comes from the same book in the Bible. You so desire to be normal, but being normal is engagin in m=normal behavior. News flash, less than one percent of the world is homosexual. You seem so angry. Is it your mom or dad who you blame it all on. You defintely do not emulate them. I guess you said, "I want to grow up to be mommy, so I can get daddy's love." You just don't get it, the California Supreme Court may dance with it, but since there is a federal DOMA and the senate voted 85-15 and congress voted 342 to 67 it is not happening. If I don't believe that a man is supposed to use his rectum in such a gross manner, you can't force it upon me. The lies are just the nature of your beast. Just like the woman who portrays herself as a pregnant man. Even scientifically she is a woman. So you reject the truth, the Bible and I will reject the lie, the homosexual, pedophile,and polygamist agenda.

jrb

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:16:15 -0800

Ooo I must have struck a nerve if ts has to start flinging filth at me. Save your psycoanalyisis for yourself you need it more. Want to quote law? How about the Constitution? "Freedom of religion and the free excercise thereof." which works both ways. If I don't believe in your bible you can't force it on me by way of legislation. I fully expect Prop 8 to be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. Same sex marriage hurts no one. Grow up and stop trying to control everyone elses' morals.

trtuhspeaker23

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:36:28 -0800

To jrb: No, my friend,it will turn out that you secretly craved your mother, and your dad did you in the behind, before it will ever be considered that Jesus, the Son of God, was gay. Use someone else's brain, since sadly you are working with an IQ under 100. If God calls homosexuality an abomination, a major sin of the flesh, and Jesus is God's Son, the Word which became Flesh, Jesus could not be an abomination to himself. But, why not, in your perverted demented unable to befilled by a woman life, as you applaud the decaing of churches and your hate for church, heterosexuality, and your parents, you can only hope to bring other homosexuals into your perversion of Jesus. FORTUNATELY, THE HOMOSEXUALS I KNOW, KNOW THAT THEY HAVE ISSUES FROM YOUTH, AND DO NOT NEED TO REVEL IN DEFACING CHURCHES FOR JUSTIFICATION IN THEIR OWN MIND. I LOVE TO THIS, BECAUSE GUYS IGNORE THIS, SO HERE GOES: DOMA:The Federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman for purposes of all federal laws, and provides that states need not recognize a marriage from another state if it is between persons of the same sex. 37 states have their own Defense of Marriage Acts (DOMAs), while 2 more states have strong language that defines marriage as one man and one woman. There are 30 states that have constitutional amendments protecting traditional marriage, including the three states (Arizona, California, and Florida) that passed constitutional amendments in November 2008. California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STATUTES Consent; issuance of license and solemnization Marriage is a personal relation arising out of a civil contract between a man and a woman, to which the consent of the parties capable of making that contract is necessary. Consent alone does not constitute marriage. Consent must be followed by the issuance of a license and solemnization as authorized by this division, except as provided by Section 425 and Part 4 (commencing with Section 500). (California Family Code Section 300) Adults capability to consent to and consummate marriage An unmarried male of the age of 18 years or older, and an unmarried female of the age of 18 years or older, and not otherwise disqualified, are capable of consenting to and consummating marriage. (California Family Code Section 301) Between man and woman only Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. (Section 308.5) (Proposition 22) CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT California Marriage Protection Act SECTION 1. Title This measure shall be known and may be cited as the “California Marriage Protection Act.” SECTION 2. Section 7.5 is added to Article I of the California Constitution, to read: SEC. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. (California Const. Art. I, Section 7.5) (Proposition 8) This is the truth, which seems to disturb you much, but it should be understandable when you have chosen to live a lie.

trtuhspeaker23

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:12:39 -0800

To Johnny: No, I do not think that you will ever get it. You amazingly ignore the truth, that million of dollars were donated by polygamist and pedophiles to the losing No on Prop 8 cause. Remember, you are working with an IQ under 100, so it goes over your head. It sounds like you have hatred for the heterosexual community, which likely stems from a hatred of your parents, a man and a woman. I'm guessing that when you left the church, you also left your parents in a simultaneous act. You also fell to address, your tolerance for such things as pedophiles, you know men who sleep with children, incest, siblings and parents who sleep together. Is that what happened to you??? But, remember in all of this, it was you running away from the truth, that started your fall into darkness. Prop 8: "Only Marriage between a man and a woman is valid in California." That says nothing about homosexuals, or even pedophiles and polygamist. That is why, the deviants of homosexuality are not chastised by theri peer group, when they go out and deface churches, spit and hit old people, and generally act like people with IQs less than 100. But, you might be right in your warped reasoning. I hired numerous gays, for such things as real estate, interior decorating, yard work, and escrow just so I could have pity on them and give them a pay check. Bad Me.

jrb

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:28:13 -0800

"Did you have an afflicted childhood, huh. " You a psychiatrist for Jesus now? You really ought to take a closer look at your personal savior ts. I mean, here's a guy who never married, never had any kids, lived with 12 other guys, and had a platonic relationship with a hooker. From that discription, Jesus sounds pretty gay. What if it turned out he was? I guess that would make 'ol Ted Haggard pretty happy. He could go out into the world actually and be himself. Maybe he could start a new branch of Christianity. He could call it... "Ted Haggard's First Church of Meth and Men" I hear they're looking for "testifyers" ts. You should join up.

Johnny

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:51:46 -0800

I FINALLY GOT IT!!! You at one point in your life were gay (or you're trying very hard to hide it) but you have found religion in the hopes to repress or hide your homosexuality! It all makes sense, the hatred towards the gay community, the zealot religious ramblings, the psychological analysis of your lesbian friends, your intolerance of differences, but most of all how you are so comfortable in saying "I speak the truth".

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:12:11 -0800

so, you just thought that I might come back with the truth and actually quote what DOMA actually says. I bet you tolerate pedophiles, polgamist,and incest lovers, you know the biggest contributors to No on 8. Speakiing of big world. Many years ago God dealt with homosexuality with fire in Sodom and Gomorrah, but this day he tolerates it long enough for the likes such as you to decide on an Eternal Fire. Note to Little Johnny, not all in Sodom practices homosexuality, it is just that most condoned it and offer no pschological or spiritual treatment to help them. You know, the help that the nutts who sent white powder to the Mormon Church need. True colors of HATE by No on 8 people. I guess by that act alone, in America,the vote went up from 85% to 90%. What's that 1% homosexual and 4% heterosexual against DOMA.

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:59:32 -0800

Little Johnny, I unlike you, have seen adn live throughout the world. I have seen it all. From ALaska, to Germany, Hawaii, Panama, Alabama, Thailand, Bangladesh, Muslims, Hindus, Germany, Wash DC, NEW Yoorj, and I can go on. I have Lesbian friends and have employed homosexuals, the difference, I know the truth. I speak the truth and do not allow your confusion. I unlike you,m also do not tolerate pedophiles and polygmaist

Johnny

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:34:31 -0800

Yeah that's what I thought you might come back with so thank you for proving to me that you can't think outside of your little zealot ideals. FYI, It's a big world out there, a lot of different people and ideals. You may want to explore it a little bit and learn some tolerance which I'm sure your scriptures talks about. You may learn something.

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:54:25 -0800

DOMA: Just to help you a little. No on Prop 8 has no effect on the Federal DOMA and would not be recognized on the federal level. I will cut and paste from Wikepedia about DOMA, since you fail to include the primary text and only refer to an opinion about "What If" "What Is" 1. The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states. 2. Definition of 'marriage' and 'spouse': In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word ‘marriage’ means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word ‘spouse’ refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.”[

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:50:43 -0800

If your intolerance includes me, then you can understand might intolerance for those who would pilfer the Word of God and attempt to minimize it. And I don't want unholy rites forced upon me and my children. You may be okay with people who are a part of the destruciton of the family having full access to your children but not me. If the state wishes to teach marriage or speak of it in misguided tolerance terms for children,then they are teaching religion, because marriage is one of two institutions ordained by God. Separation of Church and State means that government shall not take a position to put the church or securalist in an unfair advantage over the other. It also says that the government can not take reeligion out of schools, because it is the structure and foundation of it. It goes on to say, that the schools can not force scriptures to be read by teachers or students, but and this is the biggee, the Bible can be taught as literary instruction and historical text. Try reading Albington School District vs. Schempp, Supreme Court Ruling. (To pass constitutional muster, legislation must have “a secular legislative purpose and a primary effect that neither advances nor inhibits religion”) If you take your IQ and cut and paste from Wikipedia or any other source, you might have an understanding of the issues, but first you must no the facts and what to search. Even you don't like religious ideas, then turn you have the right to turn away. We don't like the likes of you, trying to influence law and citing interpreted verses from NAMBLA and the propaganda of the Polygamist who contributed millions to No on 8 trying to back door polygamy. The fact is, most securalist and homosexuals, have religious envy. You want to separate yourself from religion, but you want marriage, whihc is a Sacred Writ ordained by God. You adopt the laws of the 10 Commandment, handed down by God, but you don't want to responsibiity and all they the benefits and joy of the life. Rick Warren's "The Purpose Driven Life" book says it all, in a world full of unfulfilled, undriven and purposely people. Trust me, I can read the good book, the Bible, in its entirety and context, because it is God's Word, which became God's Word in the Flesh, Jesus.

Johnny

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:41:55 -0800

It obviously doesn't take an IQ of over 100 to cut and paste from Wikipedia information pertaining to the DOMA which you clearly did. Nice job. You conveniently leave out the rest of the entry where the constitutionality of the DOMA is being argued which is why individual states like California are fighting over. I have no problem with religion in general for people, it's not for me. However, when it comes to the zelots like you picking and choosing what laws to influence the masses and what passages from the good book to take out of context to regulate others by, that is where I draw the line. Don't force your religious ideals on me, weather through influencing laws or citing me interpreted verses from the bible and we'll be fine. But I think that will be difficult for you to do.

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:40:23 -0800

Sticks and stones, sticks and stones. It's all you've got ts. You are a pious, superstitious, fool who peers fearfully heavenward, forever in mortal fear that some non existant superbeing is going to hurl a lighting bolt at you for not doing as the bible tells you. says jrb Now, that sounds more like your mom and dad. Did you have an afflicted childhood, huh. Lighting bolts?? WOW. Like I said, the people who voted No on 8 mostly had IQ's of below 100. Now, I am sure that you fear falling asleep at night. I don't blame you. The agony of knowing that if you don't wake up, you are doomed to eternal flames. These are your fears, as evident by your narrative. Sorry to disappoint, but I have no fear. I have no doubts and I have no Gender Indentity psychosexual disorder. By the way, the millions of dollars that came from the Polygamist in Utah, in a back door attempt to prosper their illicit lifestyle, are heterosexual, and they like the pedophiles probably fall under your list of those who fall under your immoral agenda of being none of your business.

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:28:55 -0800

I was lampooning the bible, but you knew that. by jrb. You see little johnny, he knows that I answered his post. So, I will begin at the top again. But, let's be positive and take you at your word, unless you are a liar like your father, Satan. you said, When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. Now, since you said this, you either believe it and so end of discussion on homosexuality or you are a liar, like your father, Satan. Now, I would not wish to declare Satan your father, but really the declaration is yours to make. But, if you truly believe that homsexuality is an abomination and this is what you remind people, then Satan would not be your father. I will make this simple, if he does not believe Leviticus 18:22, like he said, then he is a liar and the rest is moot, he would not believe it either. But, if as he says, he makes this statement about homsexuality being an abomination and he beleives that, then the next step is to accept Christ and gain the understanding of the rest of the verses. Now, as you said, If it turns out that I really do burn in hell for eternity, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I won't have to spend it with people like you. Now, that is called a sad and empty eternity. You won't be spending it with any one. That is called all alone, burning, screaming, and receiving the wages of sin. Trust me, you don't know me and I do not wish to know you. And if you wish to be left alone, then leave all of us alone, 52% voted in California and 85% of America wants our Ordained Sacred Writ of Marriage left alone. DOMA: The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.

truthspeaker23

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:17:39 -0800

Since you do not wish to be saved, the I will give you the legal stuff, you know the law, the California DOMA which parallels the Federal DOMA inacted in 1996 by your then Democratic Pres. Bill Clinton. It is amazing, i think that in order to support No on 8, the people had to have IQ's below 100. Consider, millions of dollars came from the Polygamist in Utah and the homosexual pedophiles in the Catholic Church and NAMBLA. Also, I hear them suggest that Civil Union is not goood enough, because they don't get the same federal rights of marriage. But, Read the Federal DOMA inacted in 1996, and by the way Califirnia's DOMA in 2000 followed this. DOMA: The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states. Prop 8 is consisted with the guidelines for the Federal DOMA and just like Protectmarriage.com said the No on 8 people are politically postering to no avail. Also, consider The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate[1] and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives[2], and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996. That means that it was passed by 85% vote in the Senate and 85% in the House, which is consisted with 87% of America who value a traditional marriage

jrb

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:50:17 -0800

"Now, since you said this, you either believe and end of discussion on homsexuality or yo are a liar like your father, Satan." I was lampooning the bible, but you knew that. This book you quote from so copiously, was written my many men, for thousands of years, translated numerous times, twisted at the whim of the powerful and not so powerful, and used to gain control over others. It has some interesting stories. But when you consider how literalists like you have twisted it, taken things out of context, and written your own meanings into it over the centuries, it has to be the most evil and toxic book ever written. And not that I give two shits who or what you think I am, or who or what you think my father is. But; I'm a heterosexual who believes that it is none of my business if two people love one another that happen to be the same gender, but it is my business if people like you try to force your moral agenda on to the rest of us. Call me all the names you want. Accuse me of the most heinous things you can come up with. Sticks and stones, sticks and stones. It's all you've got ts. You are a pious, superstitious, fool who peers fearfully heavenward, forever in mortal fear that some non existant superbeing is going to hurl a lighting bolt at you for not doing as the bible tells you. What a sad and emty life you live. Please do not try and force such a life on me. If it turns out that I really do burn in hell for eternity, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I won't have to spend it with people like you. I don't want to be "saved", please save yourself and leave the rest of us alone!

Johnny

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:36:10 -0800

Still laughing cause you're still giving so much to laugh at. By the way you still haven't addressed jrb's post. Oh, and another side note, just because I don't prescribe to you're faith does not make me "evil" as you are insinuating.

truthspeaker23

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:08:26 -0800

@jrb Millions of dollars came from members of NAMBLA, you know the pedophiles, to support No on 8 were you one of them. Funny, No on 8 had a banned Catholic priest too, you know since 95% of the pedophile Catholic priests were homosexuals. So, you can but, but, and then butt. There is not wonder yopu have a Gender Identity Disorder form of homosexuality under DSM 111, a psychosexual disorder. I guess you have no shame in the butt thing. Besides, it would be hard for you to believe in that Book, you would have to reconsider your psychosexual disorder and possibly seek help, which that Book would give you.

truthspeaker23

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:00:03 -0800

@jrb NBo it is your lame attempts to justify thing s you do such as homosexuality and likely pedophilai.

truthspeaker23

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:58:06 -0800

Dear Jrb, I guess that you were not satisfied with the response you got before when you made the same ridiculous request for education on another board. But, let's be positive and take you at your word, unless you are a liar like your father, Satan. ou said, When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. Now, since you said this, you either believe and end of discussion on homsexuality or yo are a liar like your father, Satan. Now, I would not wish to dclare Satan your father, but really the declaration is yours. But, if you truly believe that homsexuality is an abomination and this is what you remind people, then Satan would not be your father. Now, little Johnny was that silent enough or are you still laughing. But for the sake of both of you, if you have confusion, just start with accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and then your blindness will be removed and you will have unerstanding. Funny thing about language, the people it is intended for, get the understanding. You might want to consider, that thing about Satan being your father. Just a thought. Yourknees are close to the ground, proceed in that direction and ask God for forgiveness, which is the very thing that a homosexual practices thaat abomination must do.

Johnny

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:09:20 -0800

HAHAHAHAHAHA nice job jrb, I love it. I can't wait for the answers but I've got a feeling there will be silence.

jrb

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:44:46 -0800

Dear Truthspeaker23, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. (stolen from Dear Dr. Lara)

jrb

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:34:30 -0800

"Christianity is between you and God, and your salvation." Gee thanks for allowing me to do that. Now how about letting everyone else make their own choices? Your lame attempts to justify hate, and inequality by saying; "But, but, but, it says so in the bible..." just doesn't fly. If I choose not to believe in your book, why should I have to live by what bible clerics interpret it to say?

truthspeaker23

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:23:32 -0800

By ephemerae says @truthspeaker - your belief system is merely one of many, none of which have any place in state law. Consider the Bible and consider the federal law. First the Bible, it is the ten commandments that give us such laws as Thou shall kill. Thou shall not steal. They are also against state law. Consider marriage,yes, we get the from the Laws of Leviticus, which also prohibits fathers from marrying daughters, sisters from marrying brothers, and mothers from marrying sons. Second federal law: The Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, is the short title of a federal law of the United States passed on September 21, 1996 as Public Law No. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419. Its provisions are codified at 1 U.S.C. § 7 and 28 U.S.C. § 1738C. The law has two effects: No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state. The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states. Including the results of the 2008 general elections, two states (Massachusetts and Connecticut) allow same-sex marriage, five states recognize some alternative form of same-sex union, twelve states ban any recognition of any form of same-sex unions including civil union, twenty-eight states have adopted amendments to their state constitution prohibiting same sex marriage, and another twenty states have enacted statutory DOMAs No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship. Definition of 'marriage' and 'spouse': In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word ‘marriage’ means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word ‘spouse’ refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.”[ Do some research,instead of walkign blindly in the dark.

trtuhspeaker23

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:59:29 -0800

@jrb I spent many years in the South and experienced racism and saw KKK crosses being burnt. I knew that certain towns you could not drive into, especially at night. So, your lame attempt at dimishing what i said does not work. It was only Satan that drove you away from Christianity. Newsflash, you were never in. You can always make that choice however. Christianity is between you and God, and your salvation. By the way, it is the entire Word of God, from Genesis to Revelations. The Bible is the law, regardless if I choose to follow it or not. If I choose to drink alcohol or engage in homosexuality, the Bible does not give me license to do so. You're right, you are not Jesus, by I know him personally and have a personal relationship. Marriage is ordained by God, and the scriptures are clear. You can not find any argument or scripture to support a man using another man's butt for sex. The polygmaist justify too.

jrb

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:26:24 -0800

@truthspeaker I grew up in the southern United States in the 50's and 60's, and I remeber racist, white, segregationists cherry picking quotes out of the bible to justify segregation. It's one of the many things that drove me away from Christianity. It seems a person can cherry pick any number of quotes from the bible and justify just about any heinous, wrong, or unjust act they want to. I guess it makes them feel better if they can claim some measure rightiousness in their wrongful actions. Maybe Jesus will forgive you, but I'm not Jesus.

ephemerae

Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:53:12 -0800

@truthspeaker - your belief system is merely one of many, none of which have any place in state law.

truthspeaker23

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:52:10 -0800

Marriage is ordained from the beginning. At the start of the human race, at the outset of sacred Writ, is ordained the divine origin and sanctity of Marriage. One Man and One Woman, One Flesh. Scripture represents marriage as an earthly counterpart of the relation between Christ and the Church. Genesis 2; 22- and the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a Woman, and brought her unto the Man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. If you choose to abolish the term Marriage, then in your rebellion you may wish to call Gays something other than Man and Woman.

tballw32

Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:12:07 -0800

We're asking people to go to the service at St. John’s Episcopal Church Sunday at 10:30. It’s on the corner of Adams and Flower and they were one of our biggest supporters against Prop 8. There will probably be a march right after the service. I am the farthest thing from religious, but in this time when we’re looking at religious institutions as the ones to blame, we have to remember it’s the institutions and the way they have warped their beliefs to hate, not religion itself that is the problem. We're being persecuted by the institutions, but we can't stoop to becoming religious persecutors http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=47088076864

GarySe7en

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 12:35:42 -0800

Wouldn't really want to see voices censored, but come on lahipster, is it really necessary to post same message across every single story relating to prop 8. Sounds like you're the one who needs to get a life.

Ross A. Lincoln

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:17:33 -0800

RE: Lahipster - Can someone ban this asshole from posting? Please? Zach? Carrie? just block him.

lahipster

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:13:16 -0800

Exit polls in California found that 70 percent of black voters backed the ban. Slightly more than half of Latino voters, who made up almost 20 percent of voters, favored the ban, while 53 percent of whites opposed it.

porkch0p31

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:20:50 -0800

@samkim not 100% sure, but I thought marriage is a state issue, thus, would not likely reach the United States Supreme Court?

JoeyGirl

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:47:03 -0800

"restore" marriage? who the fuck are they kidding...

samkim

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:04:17 -0800

I'm afraid if this reaches the SCOTUS, though, that they will be able to somehow strike down gay marriage throughout the entire US. which is why i dont want people to take it court. give it some time, people! things don't happen right away. its never that easy. im nto saying give up, just to work for the long term goals rather than short term which might have higher ramifications

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:33:44 -0800

just to be clear, a lot of the No on 8 money came from out of state as well. after we amend the constitution to remove this piece of shit discriminatory language, then we can start an initiative to eliminate ballot initiatives. i still can believe we expanded the rights of chickens and eliminated the human rights.

polaroidgirl

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:27:28 -0800

Almost forgot: Can we prevent people and orgs from out of state from financially backing propositions (aka the damned Mormons)?

polaroidgirl

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:24:01 -0800

Back to the issue... I agree we should eliminate the term marriage. Lets the churches have it. This will reinforce the need for separation of church and state. The idea of getting hitched is so much more attractive to me personally when the process is divorced from religion. Next, we need to change the process for getting stuff on the ballot in CA. It should not be this easy to amend the constitution. Think about what it takes to amend the Federal Constitution. Last but not least, until all those mail in ballots are counted I still have a teeny glimmer of hope.

polaroidgirl

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:17:12 -0800

PARAMOUNT_FROST- THE PROBLEM WITH ALL CAPS is that they are hard on the eyes. When we read we don't actually look at every letter. Our brains actually look, in part, at the shapes of words and matches them with what is stored in our brain. For example, you can remove most of the vowels from a sentence yet your brain can still read and comprehend it. Typing in all caps doesn't reinforce to us the importance of what you are saying (perhaps if you learn some HTML code you code use bold, italics and underlining to emphasis your points) instead it just strains everyone's eyes. Not unlike they way your ignorant views are straining our patience.

Johnny

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:09:29 -0800

Trojan2002, when I referred to uneducated I mean it a worldly way not just book smarts. I know plenty of people who are highly educated in the schooling sense but very uneducated in their worldly surroundings. I put the people who voted yes on 8 in that category, living in their ideological world and not acknowledging the different people around them.

ben bang

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:56:45 -0800

Anyone know the legalities involved in publishing the names/businesses who gave heavily to support prop 8? They are already available to the public: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory I've culled a fairly comprehensive list. Newsflash: tons of assholes in Burbank.

Ali Miller

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:53:19 -0800

paramount frost, shouldn't you be taking care of UR 3 BABIEZ rather than flame comments sections?

Carrie Meathrell

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:49:00 -0800

I think paramount_frost is off to carve an 8 on his face, give himself a black eye, and then blame it on a large black gay man.

porkch0p31

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:42:34 -0800

Prop 8 was a waste of time and money! For those who voted yes on Prop 8, it's inevitable that the amendment will be struck down. If you read the court's opinion from the recent case granting gay marriages, you would see that the court totally elevated its standard of review on sexual orientation discrimination to the same level of racial discrimination - the highest standard in constitutional law! That means when cases start piling up, the California Supreme Court will likely find the amendment unconstitutional. *sigh*

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:26:41 -0800

JUST CAME BACK 2 SAY YES I'M JUST FUCKEN WITH U ALL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA & I DONT CARE ABOUT U GAY FUCKERZ HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH I'M FUCKEN TIERD OF U GAYZ SO I'M GOING 2 SEE ANOTHER WEB SITE 2 FUCK WITH THEM!!!!!! BYE PUTOZ HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

queequeg

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:28 -0800

Cool link tballw32!! Best part was when I inadvertently found out that 1) Ellen and Tracy Chapman put down my workplace's zip code (90067) and 2) they both donated lots of money to oppose. Aw.

GarySe7en

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:51:51 -0800

If you want to read some of the real ideology behind Prop 8, check out the user Kay in this thread to know what we are dealing with. Same faulty logic, but articulated and with complete sentences: http://kcet.org/socal/2008/10/proposition-8.html Here is a sample: "...There is a deception in all of this however. Having sex with someone of the same gender (or our best attempt at it anyway) first, is not NATURAL (nature itself tells us this,) and secondly, there is a spiritual and emotional price we pay that is one of perpetual detachment and disconnectedness that, in the process, goes largely undetected. We may THINK we are getting closer to that person when we are experiencing orgasms with one another, but there will NEVER be the same sort of sexual-emotional bonding found within a heterosexual union. Sexual intercourse MUST involve both sexual organs at the same time in order (for it to even be called sex--to begin with--but more specifically in order) to BECOME ONE the way God designed sex to be (for our ultimate good.) [ 16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself even to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, "The two are united into one"]..."

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:44:41 -0800

paramount had to leave. you see, he's an unemployed, uneducated ass who is not literate enough to even understand our arguments much less reply with any coherence.

Hindinwood

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:43:14 -0800

Um you guys, I think this Paramount character is just fucking with us to get a reaction. Ignore.

ohgrl

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:42:47 -0800

>>IT WAS MADE 2 B MAN & WOMEN THATZ ALL I'M SAYING. So you're a Mormon? Or just a Moron?

jrb

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:36:04 -0800

"U ALL MAKE ME SICK LIKE I SAID..." Religious zelots who try to legislate their moral agenda on everyone else makes me ill. I don't believe in your book pf.

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:29:20 -0800

WILL THIS WAS FUN HAHAHA... SORRY I'M NOT GOING 2 B ABLE 2 EDUCATE U ALL, MY BABY IS CRYING & SHE COMEZ FIRST THEN U ALL... DONT 4GET YES ON 8 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:25:43 -0800

by the way, if you want to boycott businesses who donated $100 or more to the Yes campaign or start going to businesses who donated to the No campaign, you can find the list of yes and no donors here: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory

Carrie Meathrell

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:21:21 -0800

Oh! And if you could provide original translations from the Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew, that would be awesome! As a devout Christian, I am sure you are very familiar with the languages the Bible was actually first written in.

BartlettPears

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:19:25 -0800

"IT WAS MADE 2 B MAN & WOMEN THATZ ALL I'M SAYING." "REMEMBER GOD MADE MAN & WOMEN NOT MAN WITH MAN OR WOMEN WITH WOMEN. REMEMBER 2 HAVE A FAMILY (KIDS) U NEED MAN & WOMEN..." Please don't speak like you have any authority whatsoever to how the world was created. You don't. I wasn't there, and neither were you. Understand that you choose to believe in a fairy tale in some people's eyes. You have an opinion as to the origins, yet rely on phenomenon not present in your own lifetime. Other people believe that balls of gas changing hydrogen into helium is what generates the heat and energy we feel on earth. You believe its god. So be it. but don't push it on everyone else when you have no proof of certainty. Let it be.

Carrie Meathrell

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:18:39 -0800

paramount_frost, can you explain why God is against gay marriage in California? Please cite chapter and verse of the Bible in your explanation, please.

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:16:44 -0800

U ALL MAKE ME SICK LIKE I SAID YES ON 8

Carrie Meathrell

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:13:01 -0800

Hey paramount_frost, you can indeed write any way you want to, but don't expect us literate members of the blogosphere to pay any attention to what you have to say. Your apparent lack of communication skills marks you out as ill-informed and near unintelligible. * *Let me know if you need a link to a good dictionary to figure out what these big words mean.

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:08:05 -0800

YES I DO HAVE KIDZ. I HAVE 3 GIRLZ & I KNOW YOUR NOT TRYING 2 TELL ME HOW 2 EDUCATE THEM (RACHEL80)!!! & 2 XXJEANNEXX I'M SORRY ABOUT YOUR FRIEND BUT THE FRIEND I HAD WAS CONFUSES & HAD ALOT OF PROBLEMZ... LIKE I SAID B4 GOD MADE MAN & WOMEN THATZ WHY I VOTED YES ON PROP. 8 & WILL DO SO AGAIN

trojan2002

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:57:07 -0800

No johnny, check out the exit polls... educated people who predominantly voted for Obama also voted for Prop 8. problem was communication, and how the NO campaign was marketed. Equal rights is equal rights. The no campaign spent too much time on the defensive than on the offensive. i don't believe it's for the government to decide what two adults do, that includes marriage and how they have sex. Marriage needs to become a religous/spiritual matter. Hopefully, if 8 doesn't get rejected by the courts, another prop does come up on the states involvement.

queequeg

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:49:43 -0800

oh, paramount_frost -- Where do we gays come from? Heterosexual people, including you heterosexual homophobes. Just because y'all have an unhealthy amount of self-hatred doesn't mean you get to project that onto the rest of us.

Snoodit

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:44:42 -0800

Come to the rally. Show your outrage and that we won't stand for this. Tonight, West Hollywood, 7 p.m., San Vicente and Santa Monica Boulevards.

xxjeannexx

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:37:01 -0800

paramount_frost, I was 9 years old when I met my friend Amelia. Amelia had "two mommies" and though I didn't fully understand what that meant at the time, I knew that they loved her dearly and took care of her. Amelia became one of my best friends for over 10 years before Leukemia took her life in 2006. Her "two mommies" - Patricia and Kym - are two of the most amazing parents I've met. Amelia was never confused by the fact that she had parents of the same sex. She was educated about who her father was and he was even part of her life towards the end. Early on, what was hard for her was the discrimination she felt from kids around her who did not understand, nor accept, her because of having same-sex parents. This changed as we all grew up and people around her learned that our differences can be celebrated. Just because someone is different it doesn't make it wrong and the fact is that this proposition is unconstitutional. It removes basic civil rights from a group of people that live and breathe the same air as everyone else. To everyone else, Let us keep educating others about this issue. Let us keep fighting for civil rights for ALL humans regardless of race, ethnicity, sex, gender, or sexual preference. We've come a long way and we're just not there yet. We will be someday. The battle is long and hard... just remember we CAN and WILL get there.

bethesdan

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:31:48 -0800

Read the exit poles! 70% of African Americans voted yes on Prop 8. Pretty sad. The glbt community needs a better dialogue with the aa community.

Johnny

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:27:22 -0800

Unfortunately it's the ignorant, non-open minded, illogical, uneducated masses that help pass this bigoted proposition. It's very sad that there are so many of them out there.

queequeg

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:26:06 -0800

Just got wind of this: PROTEST DEMONSTRATION AGAINST PROP 8 TONIGHT AT 7PM AT SAN VICENTE AND MELROSE SPREAD THE WORD WIDELY OUR FIGHT FOR OUR EQUALITY, DIGNITY AND FULL CITIZENSHIP IS FAR FROM OVER LET THIS DEFEAT ENERGIZE US TO TAKE ACTION - REACH OUT - BUILD STRENGTH ACROSS COMMUNITIES WE CANNOT LAY DOWN IN DEFEAT - WE MUST STAND UP AND FIGHT San Vicente Blvd, between Santa Monica Blvd and Melrose Avenue will be closed tonight starting at 6 pm. San Vicente south-bound traffic will be directed to make left or right at Santa Monica Blvd. Signs have already been posted to help divert traffic. For more information about tonight's rally, please contact (323) 848-6460.

badfishgood

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:25:01 -0800

The rights of the majority are never guaranteed, let alone the rights of the minority. With time, hard work and education anything can be done. Fight for what you believe b/c if you don't no one else will.

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:16:05 -0800

makes me want to re-institute literacy and competency tests to vote.. but that would be wrong, and i know the difference between my my opinions and actually adding my opinion to the constitution

ben bang

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:15:58 -0800

The mistake you're making, paramount_frost, is to assume that all children are as lacking in intellect as you are. Fortunately, they're not.

Lindsay William-Ross

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:15:28 -0800

Oh, and PS, paramount frost, since you seem to be "educating" the comments section on your views, allow me to "educate" you on your "writing skills." the following are not words: 2 B thatz kidz r y daddyz mommyz itz Further, you have mis-conjugated the verb "to confuse"--it should be "confused" and not "on y(sic)" but rather "because." Whether you use all caps or not to "show that you mean what you're saying" (and why anyone would bother to write what they didn't mean baffles me) your butchering of the English language only leads to the overall impression that you are both uneducated and ignorant.

rachel80

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:15:09 -0800

you are totally wrong paramount frost. the ignorance in your postings are what made prop 8 pass. i HOPE you don't have any children. cause they'll have to go through A LOT of therapy to unlearn the crap you're saying.

Lindsay William-Ross

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:12:15 -0800

Kids only grow up confused when their parents don't interact with them, explain things to them, take an active role in their lives, and give them guidance. Furthermore, the state of marriage and who may or may not enter into it, has nothing to do with the couple's ability or likelihood to produce children; things like children born out of wedlock, children who are adopted, children created by means of medical intervention, children born of rape/incest reinforce the secular disconnect between marriage and the creation of children. Although some people's individual religious beliefs provide for them definitions of marriage and the role of marriage as deemed by the word of their deity, not everyone shares those beliefs. Since no one would expect those who subscribe to those beliefs to change what they think or how they should behave, it seems hypocritical and illegal (separation of church and state) to ask those who disagree to modify their behavior. Basic, basic, basic civil rights.

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:03:47 -0800

2 ALL... IT WAS MADE 2 B MAN & WOMEN THATZ ALL I'M SAYING. I UNSTAND THERE R SOME COUPLES THAT CANT HAVE KIDZ SO THEY DO ADOPT BUT WHEN ITZ A MAN & WOMEN NOT THE SAME SEX... KIDZ WILL GROW UP CONFUSES ON Y THEY HAVE 2 DADDYZ OR 2 MOMMYZ

melissajean11

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:01:22 -0800

hmmm i didn't know that a feature on a computer would signify that you mean what you say!

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:59:04 -0800

OOGA BOOGA OOOOGA!

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:55:23 -0800

IF U DONT LIKE IT DONT READ IT!!! THATZ HOW I LIKE 2 WRITE SO PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT I MEAN WHAT I WRITE...

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:52:27 -0800

IF U DONT LIKE IT DONT READ IT!!!!!!

GarySe7en

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:52:13 -0800

paramount_frost, Some married couples have kids, some do not. Some straight couples cannot reproduce and so adopt.Are you saying these couples cannot have a family? This is an absolutely broken logic used frequently as a justification for this bigoted measure. You seem to have such divine insight into the will of God, so why don't you elaborate to every one your definitive proof of your statements. Reading it out of a book doesn't count.

buzz

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:52:09 -0800

stay away period.

thatwasrad

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:48:51 -0800

Step away from the caps lock...

paramount_frost

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:43:50 -0800

U CAN SAY PROP. 8 PASSED. I WAS HAPPY 2 HEAR THAT THERE WHERE MORE PERCENT OF PEOPLE VOTED YES, REMEMBER GOD MADE MAN & WOMEN NOT MAN WITH MAN OR WOMEN WITH WOMEN. REMEMBER 2 HAVE A FAMILY (KIDS) U NEED MAN & WOMEN...

huffybike

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:27:17 -0800

Poor Ellen.

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:22:27 -0800

i think we need to start with step one, which is uniting before moving on to fight this. weho is closing their streets for a protest tonight at 7 next to the park. it won't change the results, but it will give us the avenue to unite for the fight ahead

BingosDingo

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:12:47 -0800

California; meet Jim Crow I'm with jrb. I'm not a gay man, but this offends me more than I can ever express. lahipster you are a dolt.

Mike Muller

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:12:32 -0800

Prop 8 was a cock of bullshit and everyone knew it. I'm sorry the bigots in California won.

jrb

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:09:02 -0800

Hey, this just means we have more to do. If the yes on 8 people can get away with the kinds of lies and fear tactics they used, and manage to convince more than 50%, (however thin a majority), of voters that gays and lesbians are such a threat, more education and outreach is needed. As a tolerant straight person, I'm ready to do my part.

markv

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:53:20 -0800

if I don't get all the rights, why should I have all the responsibilities? seriously people -- its time to protest stop going to jury duty, stop paying state taxes

Colfax

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:47:25 -0800

Pretty disappointed with the way LA voted on this. This city could've helped defeat this idiocy, but because it was so close, it won. Our country was set up to protect the rights of minority opinion. Not allow a pure democracy to stomp on those they disagree with. Sad for Prop 5 too. :(

paul

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:43:25 -0800

Same goes for Prop 1a (not called): Yes: 52.2% No: 47.8

paul

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:40:26 -0800

I'm sorry, can someone explain why election officials, who go purely by numbers would call Prop 8: Yes: 52% No: 48% Yet still not call Prop 4: Yes: 47.6% No: 52.4% It doesn't statistically make sense to call a prop that has less of a split and not call on the prop with a wider one. Something smells.

msmerymac

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:38:56 -0800

Gee, sorry, Melissa, I didn't know there was a specific set of "rules" I had to know beforehand and follow if I wanted to respond to you. Gary, you make a good point - the federal constitution is the supreme law of CA. I'm afraid if this reaches the SCOTUS, though, that they will be able to somehow strike down gay marriage throughout the entire US.

cap47

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:33:23 -0800

Hi everyone. I worked for the No on 8, Equality for All campaign this past summer with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force's Organizing and Training Dept. I just want to say that I am extremely hurt by the decision California voters took yesterday. If you know ANYONE who works/worked/volunteered with the No on 8 campaign please please make sure you commend them for their work. I have NEVER witnessed such hard work. This type of work is mentally, physically, and (especially) emotionally tiring. These amazing people worked in excess of 80 hrs/wk. All so that they could become second-class citizens. Wake up California.

rachel80

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:24:56 -0800

i forgot to mention this on my last comment. BOO lahipster.

thegodofthor

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:19:58 -0800

The only part of my marriage with my wife that was affected by gay marriage was last night when we both became sad that our friends civil rights were taken away from them. And my daughter will be taught that someday our country will allow everyone to have equal rights and Gays and lesbians will be able to marry.

queequeg

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:19:33 -0800

msmerymac - You can actually fight the constitutionality of a constitutional amendment. It's a bit sticky, but there's some legal logic to the idea that where there are two inconsistent Constitutional provisions (i.e., the Equal Protection clause and the clause that eliminates the right for gay people to marry), one of them will have to go. A decision to add something to the Constitution doesn't make that something constitutional.

melissajean11

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:18:45 -0800

seriously buzz, they want to take away homosexual's right to marry, we take away heterosexual's right to marry too (then they'll see how it really feels)

buzz

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:16:31 -0800

what i see in the future: no marriages for ANYONE. civil unions for EVERYONE. you care so much about your "sacred" institution? keep it in your church then. to me, this would be justice. and it would send the evangeloonies through the roof. that's change i can believe in.

Bernie Spear

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:10:35 -0800

Yay marriage. At least half of marriage doesn't end in divorce. Oh wait, it does. Glad we protected that.

Carrie Meathrell

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:09:15 -0800

Hey lahipster, people might be more inclined to listen to your arguments if you actually evinced proof of an actual education or at least the ability to use reason and logic.

melissajean11

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:06:36 -0800

yeah msmerymac.... and the courts still decide whether an amendment is constitutional.... what they ruled before was that adding an amendment to California's state constitution would be unconstitutional. propositions still have to pass through them they don't automatically become an amendment. please know your facts before you post a comment toward me

Greg Gilreath

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:04:23 -0800

Msmerymac It is only a STATE constitutional amendment. It is entirely possible that it is struck down as violative of the FEDERAL constitution, as Article 6 declares federal law to be supreme. Thus, if a state law, ANY state law, violates the federal constitution (here, this would violate equal protection, and likely due process as well) then it is null. Even if it is a state constitutional enactment.

Hindinwood

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:01:55 -0800

I friend of mine pointed out something ironic about this whole struggle. With all the signs and commercials etc. kids actually end up learning about gay marriage anyway, probably more so than they would have if Prop 8 didn't pass...

realist

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:01:46 -0800

Somewhere Jeff Kent's smiling, somewhere bigots shout, For equality and tolerance have together been struck out.

panasonicyouth

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 11:00:07 -0800

What a horrible fucking night. After being so ecstatic that Obama won, I woke up this morning as a second class citizen of California. This is insane and I am so depressed. Do people really think I am incapable of ever having a family? Jesus, I hope those 4 million ballots are all No on 8 or the amendment is overturned.

msmerymac

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:56:50 -0800

melissajean11, it's a constitutional amendement. That was the point. The CA Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional because it denies rights to a minority group based on inherent characteristics. So the Yes on 8 people want to amend the constitution to enshrine discrimination into it so it CAN'T be overturned. It can be repealed, though, with a lot of hassle. I hope the government says, "Fine, you guys don't want to extend civil rights to everyone? Marriage is over. Civil unions for all!"

queequeg

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:53:18 -0800

The No on 8 group is not conceding yet - the mail-in and provisional ballots are yet to be counted. In any case, if (and when, given the odds) it does pass, SF is ready to go back to court to fight it: SF City Attorney to file legal challenge to Prop. 8.>

rachel80

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:47:07 -0800

this is insanity. we pass prop 2 but we can't even pass prop 8. i guess farm animals have more rights than same sex couples. :( The LA times has a map of how each county voted. It barely passed in LA county, but unfortunately it pass significantly in all so cal counties. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory the fight isn't over and we need to organize more constructively for the next battle. i think the fight will get better from here. i am hoping it will. :) p.s: OBAMA!!!!

melissajean11

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:46:59 -0800

First of all, it's not official. There are still over 3,000,000 votes left to be counted. Second of all, the proposition will never be instated because the California Supreme Court already deemed such a ban unconstitutional and set precedent for any future challenges. Therefore, whoever got this proposition on the ballot wasted a lot of time and a lot of money. Nice try.

lahipster

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:44:16 -0800

civil unions are still legalin california i voted yes for prop 8 get a life make peace not war

Stan Buzzman

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:39:00 -0800

That's monkey butt. AZ passed something similar too, despite having struck it down in the 2006 election.

TheGoodGuy

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:31:58 -0800

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! Anybody know the final tally?

db

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:30:13 -0800

It sucks. It sucks. It sucks.

lahipster

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:29:14 -0800

civil unions are still legal i voted yes for prop 9 get a life make peace not war

G Pro

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:28:03 -0800

It doesnt appear the state truly was ready for equal rights. Now that I am not even sure what that means anymore.

tballw32

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:26:02 -0800

i'm disgusted with our state, but more disgusted by the apathy and complacency on our side. if we don't stand up for ourselves, who will? we have to keep fighting but the road today is much steeper.

Royps

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:24:40 -0800

I'm just so sad and disgusted by this. I wanted to be happy today, and I'm just not.