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August 5, 2008
Are NorCal Car Pools Lanes Better than SoCal's?
Photo by Skalas2 via Flickr
In today's city council session, there was a big discussion regarding congestion pricing on the 110 Freeway which would basically let non-hybrid solo car uses use the car pool lane for a price. Councilwoman Janice Hahn, who voted for the measure (and it did pass), had a concern about the lanes because they bottleneck, in her opinion, due to the inability to get in and out of the lanes whenever people want to. She wants to look into their current effectiveness.
"I know for a fact that up in Northern California, car pool lanes don't have the double-double, triple-triple, yellow-yellow, white lines," she exclaimed in a confused manner. "In fact, they treat them as just a lane that you can get in and out of. I think that is one of the number one reasons they [car pool lanes in Los Angeles] are not effective right now--is the exit and entrances to these car pool lanes."
Is she correct? Would our SoCal car pool lane woes be solved by stealing ideas from up north?
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I spent my first 24 years of life in LA. I've lived in Phoenix for three years now and the carpool lanes are similar to NorCal's. That being said I tend to think it's easier to carpool in these kind of conditions than the current ones in LA. I always hated having to anticipate which carpool exit I had to take to hit my proper exit. There was some anxiety especially when you factored in traffic. I wasn't hesitant when I first drove in Phoenix 'cause I thought it was anarchy but it lends itself to a more fluid traffic condition. I'll admit that Phoenix traffic can't hold a candle to our traffic in LA but I can see it being better than what is already on our freeways.
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It is illegal to weave in and out of them is it not? I see people do this all the time and usually when people do not expect it. I think this is a bigger problem. In VA/DC some carpool lanes are HOV-3 (3 or more people) which should be tried on the 405 and other really crowded freeways during rush hour. These lanes are often completely cut off and jersey barricaded away from regular lanes.
Instead of opening them up maybe we can close them off.
James
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I like the idea of driving my car onto a tow truck and having the tow truck drive me to where I need to go while I'm in my car. Like the red Prowler in the pic. :-)
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I hate driving in l.a. because of these car pool lanes. They give me major anxiety...plus they are six inches from the divider which I have major fears that I'll hit when I drive in the car pool lane.
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There's still going to be a bottle neck, regardless of where you get out of the lane. The normal lanes will still be going 5mph and the carpooler who wants out will have to slow down to merge. I find it hard to imagine that all of a sudden people will start merging quickly and safely if given this flexibility.
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there are some HOV-3 lanes in the Bay Area as well, fwiw. It's a trend in other sprawling cities as well, one which I like, in that it encourages carpooling as opposed to lane-widening, freeway expansion and endless construction.
Or will we see the 16-lane superhighway before we know it (maybe before the Subway to the Sea?)
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Open merging for single-lane diamond lanes is really dangerous because the difference in speeds between the carpool and standard lanes. When there are 2 lanes, like the 110 south out of downtown, it would be safer.
However, the placement of the entrance/exits don't make sense. We need one before and after every interchange and major street. Too often you get trapped in a diamond lane and can't get out or in the case of the 10 east, you can't get in.
If I remember my defensive driver training, the fine for crossing that solid line is 333 dollars - the same as violating the carpool lane.
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The double-yellow line is the saving grace for most motorcycle commuters. Typically much safer than splitting lanes in regular lanes, since traffic is not supposed to change lanes except at the certain designated areas.
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Just about everything about NorCal is better than SoCal...including the carpool lanes. NorCal was smart enough to build a mass transit system that served the entire region back in the 60's/70's.....and what did SoCal do? Absolutely nothing until the 80's when MTA started the current rail system..but that system falls short of connecting the entire SoCal area. We need a truly regional mass transit system that connects LA, OC and the IE. Also, how is it that of the four major airports (LAX, BUR, ONT and SNA) none are easily accessible by transit?
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Pleeeease nooo! It is so insane when people decide to lane change whenever they feel like it because the carpool lane might be going 80 and the rest of the freeway is going 50 or under. I think it would be a lot safer to have designated carpool exits inbetween every couple of exits, clearly marked (e.g. like the 405's). Then you only have to slow down around there for people merging. Never randomly. (I also love the idea of 3+ people during rush hour, especially on the 405 too... )
And yes, I have driven all over California. I like carpool lanes better in socal.
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Every thins in NorCal is better? What about the "parking lot" and "the maze" the opposite ends of the Bay Bridge?
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Yes, the norcal system is objectively better. It has to do with traffic volume. Apparently, at high traffic volumes, free entry/exit is more efficient.
There has been a study that proved it. However i can't find the link now - some googling should turn it up. It was about a year or two ago.