LAist: Yes, You Can Take Photos on the Metro Red Line

borderlineblues

Wed, 21 May 2008 01:33:29 -0800

The exact same incident happened to me. I was approached by the security (summer of last year) and told to stop taking pictures.

Hypersquared

Fri, 16 May 2008 12:34:47 -0800

Fine, then. We agree more than we disagree. I've encountered good, helpful cops and belligerent, useless cops. While we certainly owe it to the good ones to be respectful, our greater responsibility at citizens is to not let bad ones off the hook for their shit.

westsideforlife

Fri, 16 May 2008 10:38:10 -0800

I agree, police should be held accountable. I just cannot agree with the statements similar to "it is generally true that a lot of police officers are in it for the power trip." Certaintly, those officers exist, but I think its irresponsible to assume a majority or "a lot" of cops are that way. I think the "power trip" attitude comes from the daily ins and outs of police work. If an officer doesn't have control of a situation, the oficer can ultimately get hurt. Its unfortunate that the "power trip" attitude often applies to petty situations, but its a reality. I also agree I would likely feel differently if I were "spoken to."

Hypersquared

Fri, 16 May 2008 09:26:59 -0800

Westside: Re-reading your comment after I posted, I realized you weren't addressing the subway issue, per se. I mistakenly framed my response as though you had. That said, I think Frabicio used arch language to describe something that is generally true, which is that a lot of police officers and private security personnel are plainly more interested in the power trip of telling people what to do, than in any kind of reasonable approach to law enforcement. Admittedly, there's some dime store psychology involved, but once you've encountered upwards of 20 cops who reek of being the kid who was picked on in high school now turning the tables on his tormentors (i.e. the general public), one can't ignore the pattern that emerges. I have a feeling that if one were on the receiving end of what the photographer confronted in the Metro, one would not describe is as having been "spoken to," especially by the time he was threatened with (false) arrest over the P.A. system. Like you, I wouldn't want to be a policeman. It's a tough job. It isn't for everyone. Not just because it's dangerous and the hours are long, but because there's an enormous amount of responsibility and because you'll constantly be held accountable by the public whom you serve. That's precisely how it should be.

westsideforlife

Fri, 16 May 2008 07:05:28 -0800

@hypersquared No, I am not defending cops enforcing non-existant laws. I am merely attacking fabricio's ignorant characterization that cops are cops because they "can't hack it," and "no wonder they are called pigs." Of course there are cops who go overboard, and there are cops who get things wrong. But would you really want to live in an LA without cops? Secondly, my only other point was that as soon as something happens, the comments will be filled with "where was the LAPD on that one" and comments like that. I mean, a photographer was harrassed: spoken to. Not assaulted, not taken to jail, not detained, spoken to. Soon, MTA employees and cops will learn its ok to take pictures in the subway. But, we are all DOOMED? Really?

Militant Angeleno

Wed, 14 May 2008 20:03:07 -0800

Next time you are caught, immediately go to that tables of violations (no smoking, no fare evasion, etc) and kindly ask the officer or Metro staffer which one of them you are in violation of.

Militant Angeleno

Wed, 14 May 2008 20:01:06 -0800

You have every right to take pictures. In each station there is a table of things you are not allowed to do accompanied by illustrated icons -- no fare evasion, no spitting, no smoking, no loud music, no eating/drinking, etc. Fine. Those are made clear. Photography and/or video are NOT listed there. There are periodic recorded PA announcements in the stations that tell riders "no eating, drinking, or smoking in trains or stations..." They NEVER tell you not to take photographs. If photography/video is really is banned, fine, THEY MUST POST IT. No such thing is posted. The funny thing when you are caught taking pictures, they merely ask you to stop, and *never* confiscate your camera or film/memory media. When asked, the Militant complies, and when they go away, he continues taking photos.

discarted

Wed, 14 May 2008 18:52:14 -0800

i was recently harassed by Andrews International security for photographing them in public at the hollywood/highland metro station. street photography is completely legal and anybody including minors and police can be photographed in public at any time. here is the letter that i sent to roger andrews, executive vice president of Andrews International. Mr. Andrews I am writing you in regard to an incident that occurred on May 3, 2008 between myself and some of your officers. I am a documentary as well as a street photographer, and yesterday I was berated, touched(technically assault), threatened with arrest and detainment by some your officers, particularly Officer *******, after legally photographing them in public. Obviously, your officers have not been educated about the law in regards to street photography and the rights of photographers; this is the second occurrence like this that has happened between your officers and myself. After photographing your officers, they were completely belligerent, stating that they were private security officers and I was required to answer their questions, which is not true. Officer ******** also tried to take my photograph which I agreed to, but he couldn't find a camera so he followed me around and eventually stopped me, forcing me to look up at one of the security cameras. This entire series of events is laughable because it appeared in his mind that the laws that allow the city to photograph me at any time in public do not apply to Officer ****** and the rest of your officers. On top of that, after having my photo taken, Officer ******* then ask me if I was in the military and I said, "no, I don't believe in the military." He then exploded and said, "I fucking built this land you're standing on, get outta here!" After that I walked around for a few minutes thinking about what happened and decided to go back to get officers' badge numbers. Once Officer ******* realized what I was doing he immediately covered up his badge with his hand and started yelling, "Oh no you ain't getting that!." I stated, "You are legally required by law to give me your badge number!" That is when ******** as well as the other officers threatened me with arrest and tried to detain me. However, I am quite aware of the law, because I am on the street practically everyday taking photographs, and began stating that you can not detain me. Get out of my way. Officer ****** would not relent and used his entire body to block me from leaving and that is when he touched me, which is assault. One of the other officers stepped in and told him to stop and took him aside to speak with him. I did not leave, told them to call the police, and waited for BID patrol to arrive. I was questioned but not arrested because I did not do anything illegal. However, the BID patrol officers gave me a very nice lecture on humanity but didn't seem to care about the way Officer ******* and the other officers reacted in an unlawful, belligerent, and inhumane manner towards me. I am requesting that all video footage of the area in front of the Highland Metro stop in Los Angeles, Ca, between 6PM and 7:30PM on May 3, 2008 be retained for viewing, as well as kept for evidence. I will be speaking to a lawyer this week as well exploring my other options via the city and Los Angeles Metro. Officer ********'s unlawful behavior along with the other officers, and more importantly, their lack of knowledge for the law is unacceptable. discarted.com BID patrol also asked me if I was an attorney, which I said "no, but I don't have to be an attorney to know the law. since you're not an attorney either that must mean you don't know the law as well...which is the reason why this all happened in the first place."

Hypersquared

Wed, 14 May 2008 18:28:02 -0800

Westside, You seem to be defending the right of MTA security cops to enforce laws that are not actually laws by saying that there are good and legitimate reasons for real police officers to exist. One has nothing to do with the other. If one's house is broken into, of course any one of us would call the cops. That's what cops are for. And depending on where in the city you live, they might actually come to your house and take a report. That has no bearing on whether the flatfoots who patrol the subway stations should be harassing photographers who are breaking no laws. If that tactic is really what we're resorting to in the "war on terror," then we are already doomed.

skd

Wed, 14 May 2008 18:19:40 -0800

This is shocking. The Metro employee cites the "9/11 laws"? Is that anything like the Nuremberg laws implemented by the Nazis in the 1930's?!! The subway was paid for by tax money, mine, yours, everyones. We have a right to take pictures of something we bought and paid for. Somebody better educate the Metro employees real quick, because I am going to be taking pictures.

westsideforlife

Wed, 14 May 2008 17:23:54 -0800

@fabricio - I nominate you to go patrol the projects, and see if you "can hack it." I'm glad there are poeple willing to wear that uniform and do police work. Its not a job I would EVER want. - As soon as there is another terrorist attack, are you going to start bitching about the lack of security, and wondering where our tax money went? - As soon as your house gets broken into, I bet you call the cops. Just a guess.

Khaneric

Wed, 14 May 2008 17:13:17 -0800

I've had this happen to me twice... once i was shooting video for a short movie i was doing and I got told i couldn't take video at the very end of the last shot. I said no problem (since i was done) and left with no incident. The second time i was simply taking photos and i had a metro employee approach me and tell me i couldn't take photos. I explained that i was a student in photo class and it was part of my project to show LA's transportation. She was very insistent that i stop taking photos and started to be a real bitch when she threatened to take my camera away. I called her bluff and she said she was going to call the cops. I stayed another half an hour in the station getting shots and the cops never showed. There is no law against shooting photos... videos are another issue.

benh57

Wed, 14 May 2008 16:56:34 -0800

Any ban on 'taking pictures' - anywhere - is ridiculous. Security Theatre. Since, of course, if a terrorist needs to take pictures, it is trivially easy to do so without being detected - what with tiny cell phone and body cameras.

Emoney

Wed, 14 May 2008 16:49:30 -0800

I always see people taking pictures in the Hollywood/Highland and Hollywood/Vine stations. Sounds like the guy just got unlucky by being there at the same time an uniformed metro employee was around. I understand how annoying it is when you know you're in the right and want to argue your point, but sometimes it's better to just nod your head and go on. Place a complaint later - rather than risk having the sheriffs question you over such a mediocre issue. Obviously, this was an frustrating incident for him, but as a daily Metro rider, I don't mind the metro staff/sheriffs looking into behavior that they find questionable (even if it's just taking pictures.

Hypersquared

Wed, 14 May 2008 16:48:38 -0800

I envision a mass photographers' protest/field trip. Twenty shutterbugs or more, riding the train from station to station, snapping photos all the way, and carrying photocopies of the MTA's official policy (or at the very least, Chief Finkelstein's statement) to show to any officer who attempts to harass them.

fabricio

Wed, 14 May 2008 16:43:32 -0800

Again... the fascism from cops in this city is amazing... and on top of that they don't even know the law. No wonder cops are called pigs virtually in every language... They take jobs to tell people off because they can't hack it on the outside; It is not about the law... And let's not even start talking about private securities...

Manny

Wed, 14 May 2008 15:48:59 -0800

Fear can make you do some strange things. I totally understand the priority to keep all travelers safe, but a little judgment would have been in order. Cmon... over the loudspeaker? Really??? How is taking pictures in the subway different from taking pics in the park? At the beach? Of traffic going back and forth?