LAist: Absinthe is Legal and BevMo's Got It

Emily Lerman

Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:36:38 -0800

I just had to re-visit this post. It's my favorite! Amazing, Elise!

Amazonca

Tue, 12 Aug 2008 06:30:44 -0800

OMG! I'll never forget that black poison called Absinthe! I'd better swallow drugs! signature: One thousand Americans stop smoking cigarettes every day - by dying.

CreativeForce

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:42:42 -0800

Awesome post! Just awesome!! Laughed my ass off!!

Hiram

Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:08:29 -0800

Yawn. Same story. I stand by my assertions. You keep citing Arnold, and he's been proven to be mistaken, not an expert. Until you unmask yourself and your actual agenda I have nothing more to say to you. YOU are the thujone-pushing propaganda tool.

TheSceptic

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:31:55 -0800

For the record here is (i)Professor Arnold's comments in the Boston Herald and (ii) the "intelligent response" from a member of the Wormwood Society "Advisory Board" published at feeverte.net forum: (i)November 12, 2007 Boston Herald The manufacturers of “new absinthe” claim that they are in compliance with the European Commission ruling that no foodstuff should contain more than 9 ppm thujone. Perhaps to raise the titillation for the current product, and to increase sales, they now claim that the “old absinthe” also had very little thujone in it! Supposedly the current drink has very little of several other terpenoids that were part of “old absinthe” because the current producers have missed the importance of (or intentionally avoided) “steam distillation” which was key to the manufacture of “old absinthe.” Steam distillation greatly affects the composition of the batchwise distillate. Any analogy to fractional distillation (as in whisky) is totally inappropriate with regard to 19th century absinthe manufacture. The toxicity of thujone, or any other toxic compound, depends upon both the amount and the time. How much and how long. There is ample evidence to indicate that high doses of thujone, camphor, fenchone (and related compounds) over a short time evoke convulsions and hallucinations in experimental animals. To the best of my knowledge there are no published studies on the long-term effect of 9 ppm thujone. It has been shown that thujone, pinene, and camphor, as well as alcohol itself, are all porphyrogenic. An individual such as Vincent van Gogh with the underlying disease of acute intermittent porphyria would be more sensitive than the general population to these terpenoids, and to drinking all alcoholic beverages, but especially absinthe. Dr. Wilf. Arnold Westwood Hills Kansas (ii) Zman Nov 29 2007, 11:12 PM Post #27 Informed Imbiber Group: Absinthe Mafia All right. I'll say it. Arnold if full of shit. Source: feeverte.net Quite disgraceful actually, as are "Hiram"s' vulgar attacks, many serious adult minded folks stay well clear of these people.

TheSceptic

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:41:18 -0800

LOL. What a joke. Are we really supposed to take you seriously? "I won't bother to argue with anonymous attackers" No you just insult and libel anyone at all who disagrees with you: dweeb coward charalatan crook (on a thread you link to) etcetera. "he will attempt to discredit experts" I don't know who "he" is, but here is an expert that YOU have insulted and tried to discredit: Professor Wilfred Arnold, Biochemist, University of Kansas. He isn't an expert? Of course he isn't according to your marketers. Why not? Because he disagrees with the hype being used to sell absinthe by businessmen with absolutely no claim whatsoever to be experts in science or history. The only thing they understand is dollars and cents. "They are playing pretend," study co-author Wilfred Arnold says of the liquor's new cheerleaders. "It is nothing like the old stuff" Thursday, Nov. 29, 2007 Time Magazine The Time journalist interviewed you, "Hiram", and chose to ignore you - I wonder why? You need a New York PR agent like Ms Brod and some soft journalists, not Time Magazine. Another good idea would be to get your members in concert to rewrite Wikipedia - oh, I forgot you already did that. How about a thread called "Call to Arms" to get your members to invade and destroy online discussions - oh, I forgot you already did that. How about admitting that the Wormwood Society is a propoganda tool - oh, I doubt that you'll do that. Persons who can see through the smoke and mirrors should consult resources like: "Interesting though was a quote by an anonymous US Treasury person who said that these drinks were essentially never banned because they have levels of thujone that are below the “long-held government limit.” I wonder why the old boys from olden times didn’t have the marbles to develop a castrated chemotype of Artemisia absinthium. It was the golden age of plant breeding. They could have hired Luther Burbank to breed one up." http://www.absinthealchemist.com/blog/ This is what modern absinthe makers must do - develop "castrated chemotypes". See: POSSIBILITIES TO REDUCE THE THUJONE CONTENT Today’s manufacturers face the problem that they have to generate a distinctive wormwood taste, without exceeding the thujone maximum limit of 35 mg/kg. The selective enrichment of the bitter and flavor compounds, while keeping the thujone concentration low, was extensively investigated (45). Tegtmeier et al. (46) compared a water extraction to an alcohol extraction method By the percolation with water or alcohol (30%vol) no thujone could be extracted, because the solubility of thujone in water is poor. Only by the application of ethanol 90%vol, it was possible to extract 0.18 mg thujone per g wormwood herb. When the method of digestion with ethanol 30%vol was applied, 0.17 mg thujone per g wormwood herb could be extracted. The largest yields were obtained, whenever the macerate of the wormwood herb was distilled (0.24 mg thujone/g). The use of hot and highly concentrated alcohol for the extraction should therefore be avoided to obtain extracts with a low content of thujone. Because the percolation with pure water might lead to a loss of microbiological quality, the percolation with ethanol 30%vol is regarded as the method of choice. This method is described as being easy to handle and economic. Gambelunghe and Melai (47) verified these results. Wormwood macerated with ethanol 20%vol for 30 days contained only 0.2 mg/I of thujone, while the maceration of wormwood with ethanol 95%vol for 6 months contained 62 mgll of thujone. The consequence for the absinthe manufactures is that traditional recipes and methods have to be modified, in order to avoid thujone contents, which exceed the limit. The maceration should be done with low concentrations of alcohol and the wormwood herb should be separated before the distillation. A possibility for the continuation of traditional recipes is to remove the thujone from the wormwood herb before the maceration. Stahl and Gerard (48) observed, that the extraction with liquid or supercritical carbon dioxide provides a fast, selective and quantitative method for the separation of thujone from the wormwood herb. Absinthin, which is responsible for the high bitter value of wormwood, remains in the herb. It is therefore possible to generate nearly thujone free wormwood herb and to use it for the manufacturing of absinthe. However, the application of this method for the manufacturing of spirit drinks was never described. The most elegant alternative to avoid the toxic thujone may be the use of thujone-free wormwood herb, which is available in certain cultivation areas,IO.16 and appears to be perfect for the use in the spirit drink producing industry. With those chemotypes, it would be possible to produce absinthe with wormwood quantities on the basis of the traditional recipes, without the manufacturer facing the risk of exceeding the thujone limit. Lachenmeier, D. W., S. G. Walch, S. A. Padosch, and L. U. Kroner. 2006. Absinthe–a review. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr 46:365-77. It should be remembered that the thujone level for absinthe in the USA according to the FDA is zero and not 35mg. Please also beware of people who "find" old bottles of absinthe and "test" them and are "AMAZED" to find that the thujone levels are the same as the FDA requirement i.e "thujone free" allowing them to sell "genuine absinthe" to Americans. What is "AMAZING" is that people believe it. Not everyone does, but "Hiram" doesn't want you to know that: "We do not trust the CADs (Commercial Absinthe Distillers) or their groupies as far as the content of thujone in traditional absinthe. They want to sell absinthe. Not in the past, but now. We want the truth" dr_ordinaire (Jun 12 2007) FeeVerte.net

Hiram

Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:00:48 -0800

Not curious at all. This dweeb follows us around the web tagging every blog post about absinthe, trying to discredit all of the modern science (ignoring practical studies and analysis in favor of armchair theorists and Time magazine, that bastion of absinthe expertise) because he's trying to bolster the failing market for alleged "high thujone" fake Czech absinthe. They used to ignore us because they had the lion's share of the market, but when our educational efforts starting having an effect (unlike their fake absinthe) they got desperate and started a misinformation campaign. Watch his tactics closely: he will attempt to discredit experts, but never offer anything substantial in return, and will seldom answer a question directly. He will resort to character assault, innuendo, ad hominem attacks, and in general accuse his opponents of many of the things he is guilty of himself. He is an anonymous coward, and not to be taken seriously until he actually comes up with any sound reasoning or evidence to his claims. There are long threads about this charlatan at WS which also contain links to his efforts elsewhere. Let's see if I can get the links to work: Here and here. I won't bother to argue with anonymous attackers who haven't the balls to identify themselves so that their own motives might be known.

Elise Thompson

Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:55:35 -0800

Hmmm... curiouser and curiouser

TheSceptic

Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:39:32 -0800

"If you'll excuse the self-plug, I'll be distilling my own brand" The Wormwood Society are the absinthe equivalent of telemarketers. Their sole interest is selling absinthe in the USA, which means with no thujone as it is banned. **"It will be like drinking decaffeinated coffee," says Pierre-André Delachaux, a history professor. "I will keep on drinking illegal absinthe until the supply dries up, then I’ll switch to whisky."** Genuine Val de Travers expert speaking at the time the Swiss ban was lifted. **But the biggest controversy surrounding the liquor--once dubbed "one of the worst enemies of man"--is about not its resurgence but rather its authenticity. Enthusiasts claim the thujone-free brands, which contain less than 10 parts per million (p.p.m.) of the chemical, are made with the same relatively small amounts of thujone as the old brews. But scientists wrote in the British Medical Journal that absinthe bottled before 1900 packed up to 260 p.p.m. of thujone--which may not sound like much, but consider that only 15 parts per billion of lead in drinking water is enough to scare regulators. "They are playing pretend," study co-author Wilfred Arnold says of the liquor's new cheerleaders. "It is nothing like the old stuff."** Thursday, Nov. 29, 2007 Time Magazine

Hiram

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:01:08 -0800

I'm in no way affiliated with them, but drinkupny.com stocks Lucid and Kubler and has free shipping in the US.

Sotto Voce Nyx

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:24:50 -0800

The Artemisia family has enough interesting effects to make a person sleepy, happy or grumpy. So if someone doesn't want that bottle of Absinthe inspired Vodka...send it on over! Cheers! Can't wait for new years! Absinthe mixed with Champagne

Lindsay William-Ross

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:27:09 -0800

ahahhahhahha this is brilliant!!!

Elise Thompson

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:42:01 -0800

I was unable to find Lucid. For now, Kubler seems like the easiest one to find (and it took the manager searching the back room for a half and hour to find it. And by the way, should you happen to send me a sample of your Marteau, I would be more than happy to review it.

Hiram

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:18:04 -0800

Wow. I totally mis-formatted those links. Sorry. ~ H

Hiram

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:12:46 -0800

It's not actually an absinthe either. They say: "Green Moon Vodka a L'Absinthe is French premium vodka blended with select Southern Wormwood essence, along with wild herbs and flowers, such as Artemesia. With its fragrant anise flavor and smooth mouthfeel, it has long been used in medicinal tonics and elixirs." "Such as Artemisia" is pretty vague since there are literally hundreds of species of Artemisia, some bearing various "wormwood" names, but only one of them is Grand Wormwood, Artemisia absinthium, from which absinthe gets its name. Southernwood (Artemisia abrotanum) is the same essence used in Absente, who are now claiming falsely: "Absente, The first Legal Absinthe in the US since 1912! How did we bring Absinthe back to the US? We replaced the banned botanical Wormwood with a less bitter cousin, Southern Wormwood, also known as "petite absinthe." Southern Wormwood contains legal levels of Thujone, making Absente the first and only modern version of the legendary and notorious Absinthe." This passage pretty much shows that they don't know much about absinthe, since Petite Wormwood is Artemisia pontica, and one of the coloring herbs used in real absinthe. And how do you bring absinthe back by taking the absinthium out of it? It's no longer absinthe, just a pastis. Unfortunately, the other absinthe-like product often mentioned these last few weeks, Absinto Camargo, is not absinthe either. No Grand Wormwood. None of this is to say that these spirits aren't at least somewhat worthwhile as drinks, they just can't legitimately lay claim to the absinthe pedigree. If you'll excuse the self-plug, I'll be distilling my own brand, Marteau, in the US before too much longer as well. Currently, I'd say stick with Kübler, Lucid and St.George, all perfectly decent authentic absinthes, and the only ones so far with real absinthium wormwood.

Elise Thompson

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:19:51 -0800

So, Hiram, what's the real deal with Green Moon?

Elise Thompson

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:16:41 -0800

Thanks for the info, Hiram. A lot of the info I got was from the Wormwood Society, reffered to in the blog as "these guys". The BevMo employees were not educated enough yet to know what was and was not Absinthe. They tried giving me pastis at first, hence my unfortunate purchase of Absente. So readers, now you know - go for the Kubler. But definitely dilute it first. By the way, I have no issues with the ratio of water to absinthe. When I am that wasted, I am known to challenge people's commitment. I apologize for calling the Frenchman a pussy.

Hiram

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:39:43 -0800

Very entertaining post! I think a lot of people get the wrong impression about why you're supposed to dilute absinthe to drink it. It's not because us absinthe snobs don't want you to be hard core ; ) or because a weaker drink is preferred, it's because proper absinthe is a concentrated extract. That's why most of the vintage labels call it "Extrait d'Absinthe." Vanilla extract is nice when used in small amounts with sugar added, but if you drink it straight, it's pretty disgusting. Same with Kool-Aid™. Properly served absinthe should be around the strength of a glass of wine or a little stronger. For a 68% (136 proof) absinthe, that's 1oz of absinthe to about 4 or 5 oz of icy cold water. For something at 53%, like Kübler, it's about 1 to 3. Sugar to taste, just like coffee or tea. Or don't. The reason it's bottled at such a high strength is to preserve the natural green color for longer and because at straight drinking strength (around 80 proof), it would louche (cloud up) in the bottle. Czech and similar absinths get poor reviews from absintheurs because they so often have nothing in common with real absinthe, which has always been a wormwood and anise spirit, and the makers of these other brands market with gross exaggerations of the alleged effects because the products wouldn't stand on taste or quality. They're pretty much just high-proof neutral alcohol with essential oil flavorings and artificial color added. The Absente (a brand name) you got at BevMo is an absinthe substitute that's been around for several years in the US. It contains no Artemisia absinthium wormwood, the definitive ingredient of absinthe. It's a fair substitute. To get more historically and scientifically accurate info on absinthe, check out the Wormwood Society. Cheers! ~ Hiram

Elise Thompson

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:13:24 -0800

Callie - we are having a new years eve party, and I have 2 full bottles of this stuff! What amazes me is that I was so confused by the end that instead of diluting the last glass of absinthe with water, I diluted it with more absinthe. And still drank it.

Johnny

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:52:02 -0800

Tony Pierce was gracious enough a few years back to give me a whole bottle of Czech Absinthe. As I returned home I handed the bottle to my friend to open the gate and my dog ran in knocking the bottle out of her hands and breaking it all over the floor. We both stared at the puddle and sniffing what should have been a crazy night of drinking and gave the dog a good stare down. He go the message. TP in his endless generosity gave me a half bottle he had stored away to make up for my mishap. Thanks Tony for my first Absinthe experience.

PeggyArcher

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:55:25 -0800

Hahahahahaha! Best. Post. Ever. We need an LAist hall of fame just for this one.

PeggyArcher

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:55:12 -0800

Hahahahahaha! Best. Post. Ever. We need an LAist hall of fame just for this one.

Marshall

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:37:43 -0800

Absinthe is the best. You're kind of high and ready to go with the flow for just about any kind of weirdness.

Callie Miller

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:53:10 -0800

We have had that bevmo absinthe for three years and haven't even opened it assuming it would be awful. It's collecting major dust. I like the little spoon-thingy though. I use that to put sugar in my coffee every morning. Guess what we'll be cracking open tonight? :-) And, I suspect, at the next LAist BBQ...

ratpicnic

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:02:37 -0800

This is undeniably one of the funniest posts I have seen on LAist. Great job! Thanks for the data, as well!

Bob LLama

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:54:56 -0800

I lived in Prague for a while back in 2000. A) there is some good absinthe out there, you just gotta find it. B) Yeah, this article is pretty spot-on as far as the effects. One part drunk, one part shroom head-trip, one part coffee. C) Yay! Finally we can get this stuff here!

panasonicyouth

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:45:43 -0800

I don't even drink and this was probably the best blog entry for the whole week. Excellent job!

mikesycz

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:37:53 -0800

ho fucking ray!

Ali Miller

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:21:34 -0800

hahahaha i got drunk reading this!!! Off to Bevmo!

lisa

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:19:44 -0800

there is no cheese called texas.hahahhhahahahah!

Carrie Meathrell

Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:57:19 -0800

screw undie run, this is def my fav post of the day (sorry guys). soooo hilarious! "tURN DOWN THE SOUND on this video OR IT MIGHT MAKE YOU HAVE TO PEE." -- CLASSIC!!!!