LAist: Have we lost the ability to co-exist?

thunderboltfan

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:33:47 -0800

To csharp7: Those things happened to me too on occasion in NYC but they never really bothered me. But then again I have a really thick skin, which in LA is called a car.

guest

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:47:22 -0800

@Andy: Can we PLEASE avoide the word "onion" in the title if possible? In Venice, it'd have to be all orgnganic and stuff...

Zach Behrens

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:17:53 -0800

My similar story is from Easter of this year: I'm riding my bike to the grocery store via the sidewalk and hit a crosswalk and press the button and wait for the white man to tell me to walk. I notice there is a nice car parked blocking the crosswalk with a late twenties/early thirties guy texting on his cell phone (he was also in a fire zone as well). I can obviously handle going over the curb and not the smooth ramp, but the many elderly in the neighborhood cannot on their wheel chairs. I tap on his car lightly and ask if he can move back 3 or 4 feet. So he gets out of his car and immediately comes over to me and into my face "are you fucking kidding me? you have a bike and can't get over the curb?" like he's trying to get me to throw a punch or something. I'm just blown away, I can't even fathom trying to explain to him if a person in a wheelchair enters the crosswalk from the otherside, they are doomed because he will not notice them [too engaged in texting] until they are stuck in a green light (also, his car was turned off). He was just that insane and probably angry I touched his nice little sports car. Happy Easter!

Malingering

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:07:54 -0800

Elise Thompson

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:53:47 -0800

It seems the more physically crowded the area, the more psychological "space" is required. That's why people in large cities like Tokyo and New York don't make eye contact and try to ignore each other (or people on an elevator) whereas in Mayberry, everyone is shouting hello to each other. Maybe Los Angeles is in transition. As we become more and more overcrowded, we need to start ignoring each other and giving each other more space, while still sharing public spaces and commodities. It seems like most of these arguments are a matter of fighting over two things that are scarce in our rushed, overcrowded megalopolis: quiet and time. People freak out when someone is making what they think is annoying noise (exacerbated by cell phones), or doing something that is using up their precious time (being slow at the gas pump). Both are results of overcrowding. Rats in a cage.

conradad

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:38:30 -0800

Just because one person fails to understand sarcasm or how to really interact with other people in a positive and sensible way doesn't mean the entire cause or "cause" is not worth a damn. We all act like assholes sometimes no matter what values we hold. Doesn't excuse her for representing poorly, though.

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:07:40 -0800

I thought that the response the sarcasm deficient woman gave would have pretty much told me that I wouldn't have wanted to donate to her cause (or "cause").

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:28:23 -0800

About the PS: I work with and know a lot of people who work for various organizations that stand on the street, talking to people about whatever issue their org. works on. While there are a lot of scammers out there, there are some legit organizations doing good work, with passionate, dedicated people who deal with a ton of negativity, rejection, and snide remarks all day long because they believe in what they are doing. Most of these people really want to break people's bubbles and stop and talk about something real for a few minutes. If you don't want to give them money or sign up or whatever the group is doing, cool, everyone knows that not every person is going to get involved, but I think you'd be surprised at the passion and knowledge a lot of these folks have. Of course there are going to be those odd balls who freak out because the stress got to them and that one remark sent them over the edge, but overall you're seeing a lot of goodhearted people wanting to make a change in the world. However, if someone's an asshole to you while you're passing by and say some inappropriate shit, by all means, call them out.

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:14:01 -0800

*full disclosure: regarding "shutting the offender down" - I'm a 6'3" male with a pretty loud, deep voice. I don't consider myself to be all that intimidating but I don't generally get dismissed. I'm not suggesting that everyone would try it or that it's not unsafe - I was really trying to say that there is more often someone around or enough someones around to shame the offender into retreating. ...and sorry about the typos.

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:08:15 -0800

You buy into the idea that efficient public transportation would match the best route you have to take to get to your particular destination? That's a little unrealistic. L.A. actually has plenty of public transportation, it just wasn't planned like a Paris and isn't confined to a rock like Manhattan. Also, I agree with the poster from NYC that people there have a much better inherent sense of how to be in and deal with the public realm. What's more, they're aren't generally afraid to remind others when they step over the bounds. In the instances you mention (except for the one at the end when you're just snide and should have kept your mouth closed) someone else (myself) in the Big Apple might have immediately shut the offender down by reminding them of where they are and where they can take themselves. I think what happens in L.A. is that where supposed to go around feeling so good about ourselves and our Hollywood headliners and glorious weather that we honestly don't know how to deal with having to deal with disruptions. In the movies the obnoxious movie star will say, "Do you know who I am?!" but here too many try and pull off the same thing; my question is, how'd we get so spoiled? PS: There's no defending a snide remark. How someone else spends their time shouldn't illicit commentary from someone trying to dismiss them as unworthy of attention. You don't need to feel bad about it, Mal, just doesn't mean that it's okay either.

meowhous

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:43:58 -0800

Ug, I should have looked at the photo before clicking on that link--I was hoping for skinny old man baggy scrotum, not barrel-shaped old man baggy scrotum! Too bad they didn't both fly into aggressive rages and get arrested for assaulting each other.

ben bang

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:12:47 -0800

Children suck.

Malingering

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:06:02 -0800

I miss NYC as well. Even if I got yelled at there, it seemed different for some reason, but I'm not sure why. I knew a guy who would panhandle for money with a sign and clipboard and stuff that said "stop alcohol abuse" and he had an organization name and everything. At the end of the day he would collect all of his change and go buy booze for himself. Most of those people are scam artists, I thought everyone knew that.

csharp7

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:58:41 -0800

Thunderbolt - I *wish* I had lived in your NYC. I think I got yelled at on the street an average of twice a day during the five years I lived there. Not to mention flipped off, whistled at, hustled, begged for money, food, beer, sexual favors and a myriad other public displays of bad behavior. I have to say - a nice quiet or radio-accompanied drive in my car is a welcome respite from the general nastiness that seems to be a matter of course in New York. I remember one Christmas walking up to 5th avenue to look at the windows and a woman who bumped into me yelled at me when *I* apologized to *her*. What did she say? "You are WAY too chipper for this time of year!!"

Militant Angeleno

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:51:38 -0800

This happened on the Westside, where all the superficial, self-absorbed people are. I'm not surprised.

wskrz

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:50:44 -0800

Co-existence, in my mind and in a hypothetical example, doesn't mean I have to love all of you. It just means that I have to put up with all of you in a polite way. Just as long as you're not infringing on my health, safety and personal rights, I don't care what you do. So I'm with you there, Mal. I also don't understand why people feel that it's necessary to be so pissed off with everyone to the point that they have to tell them. If you're pissed at someone for not giving you money, why not just shut the hell up and think "wow, what an asshole!" rather than actually say it? I question this trend of announcing your exact thoughts and opinions out loud, verbally, for everyone to hear. Did we do this twenty or thirty years ago? Is it the Internet, where many of us rely on its anonymity that we forget that the anonymity is gone when we step away from the computer? Or do people really, truly just not give a shit anymore? In response to Mal's PS, I only wish that I could be quick enough to think of a response like that to some of the panhandlers I run across. And I can vouch that Mal does actually like some children. My 21 month old son thinks she's awesome. :-) Thanks for a very good thought (and comment) provoking post, Mal. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the non-troll comments on this.

Jessica Roberts

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:26:15 -0800

I just wanted to defend Malingering's P.S. I did some research into those people on the Santa Monica Promenade asking for money and all the guys I checked on lot were not actually with any organization. They take papers from legit collectors in other parts of the city and use them in Santa Monica -- which doesn't even have its own system for monitoring panhandlers. Check out the Santa Monica Daily Press from November 29, 2006 at www.smdp.com.

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:25:31 -0800

So, I'm at a Costco gas station the other day and witnessed a perfect example of this... A lady, wearing a big foam boot on her apparently broken foot is taking a bit of time to get out of her car at the pump. The guy behind her yells at her to hurry her ass up. Another guy then says "Hey moron, can't you see she's got a broken foot?!", followed by "who are you calling a moron?!", etc. The subsequent scrum (in the middle of the gas pump area) resulted in the 2nd guy getting knifed in the leg. He went to the hospital and the first guy went to jail. It's gotten to the point that you don't dare talk back to anyone...

brent

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:01:28 -0800

I've only been here for about 3 years, so I still have some semblance of the good values and social mores instilled in me by a Midwest upbringing. I like being polite...and it surprises people here, which in turn, surprises me. Are most Angelinos really that inconsiderate? What's even more interesting, when dating, if you go out of your way to be nice, say, cook a meal for a girl, it's like you just pulled off the Houdini-est of magic tricks. Anyway, I've pretty much decided that by sheer volume, we encounter a good number crazies here in LA...and they will say anything to anyone at anytime. But there are plenty of folks that just don't care...and you know what? Eff that.

g

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:52:33 -0800

I always feel that way when I'm in Santa Monica.

thunderboltfan

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:36:17 -0800

Being a fairly recent transplant to LA from NYC, at some point in the past three and a half years I came to the realization that people here don't understand the concept of sharing the public sphere. This can be witnessed everywhere. It's a curious kind of ignorance to observe, at times highly entertaining and at other times downright infuriating. In NYC, if people on the sidewalks behaved like people here do when they are in their cars, they would be beaten to bloody pulps and thrown in the river. Sigh, I miss NYC.

fredcamino

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:32:52 -0800

How much less than 20 miles? It takes 17 minutes to go 3 miles from NYU to Central Park in NYC via the best public transit system in the world.

Andy Sternberg

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:29:48 -0800

Perhaps "moron" has grown into a term of endearment as a way of embracing the devolution of our culture to a point where it's not uncommon to encounter -- as Wikipedia has it: "...a person with a mental age between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale." Some attribute the escalation in the use of the term "moron" to American sentiment circa late 2004, where a few people voted for president, many of whom can still be heard today muttering "I can't believing I voted for that f*ckin moron!" On the other hand, perhaps it's time to start up a Venice Beach-based rag devoted to such headlines as "Tourist With Exposed Scrotum Cries 'Moron'" ...don't say it...

Malingering

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:25:07 -0800

If I took public transportation to work, it would take me 3 hours each way, to go less than 20 miles. I call that a lack of efficient public transportation, at least. When I talk about co-existence I don't mean peace, love, harmony and everyone holding hands and singing campfire songs, because that IS moronic. I just mean without screeching as if the world is coming to an end just for the sake of staking ownership over something that is not theirs.

Tony Pierce

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:05:43 -0800

is there a difference?

guest

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:57:53 -0800

i think it's the internet's fault. people are so used to fighting for no reason online that they forget they're not anonymous irl and thus act like indignant trolls. (i know, the irony is that i have not yet signed up for a username here, but tony, it's not cos i'm a c-word...just cos i'm lazy)

fredcamino

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:53:09 -0800

Let's clear one thing up, you blame it on an imagined lack of public transportation. But other than that, I would agree, hell when I used to have a car and drove in this city I was really pissed and hated everyone. But for the last 3 years I've been docile as a hindu cow.

stevemarks

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:47:20 -0800

Boy, I was with you all the way until your little PS at the end. Hard to take all of your "let's coexist" talk too seriously when you wrap things up by calling people asking for donations "a glorified panhandler" who doesn't "give two shits" about starving children. It's so ironic, in some ways you may have proved your own point.