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Don Imus is an old man. Maybe back in the day he was funny, but he hasn't been funny for as long as I've been aware of him.
But he does live in America, and here we have the freedom of speech. Now that Right doesn't mean that people cant call you out on what you say, but it should mean that you shouldn't have to get fired or jailed or killed for saying things that are racist, sexist, and unfunny.
What Imus said was racist and sexist, but guess what - we all say racist and sexist and unfunny things all the time. Some people like Imus don't think that black women are beautiful, he should be allowed that opinion without fear of losing his job. And yes it always makes me wince when old white men try to appear cool by using terminology that they know nothing about, but again, free speech.
Personally I think what's more dangerous in America isn't racist and sexist speech, it's people trying to get others fired for using their speech. Some of my favorite comedians - Chris Rock, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Howard Stern, South Park, use racist and sexist speech while at work, and they should be allowed to the same way Imus should.
The difference is those comedians are funny and Imus is not. If you're going to go after him, criticize him for being dull.
What I am far more concerned with regarding the plight of African Americans is not what some over-the-hill has-been thinks about black college athletes, it's what an actual college thinks about black students.
Last week UCLA accepted 11,837 new students, but only 392 were black. This is in the wake of last year's disgrace of only accepting 249 black freshmen with just 100 actually enrolling. To me that is way more troubling than a cheesy DJ trying to have some sort of edge, because it shows a major university in a large city faced with an obvious problem but still can't find more than a handful of blacks to offer a higher education.
Either it means that blacks, particularly those in LA, are not getting proper high school educations that would make them eligible to attend their local UCs, or UCLA doesn't really give a shit. Those are issues that I'd rather the press be focused on right now instead of Al Sharpton and Don Imus posturing and tapdancing.
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Hey Tony,
Long time listener, first time caller.
I disagree (for once) with you on this issue. I don't disagree that Imus isn't funny, he' not, but letting people get away with hate speech is letting people get away with hate speech. Whether it's your beloved Stern, or someone else. (I get Stern, btw). Woman as a whole are oppressed enough, and I assume black women double that oppression, oh and let's assume that a few of those Scarlett Knights are gay women, that's three strikes. On the eve of almost winning a national championship they now have to deal with this unfunny comic and defend themselves to the WORLD for no other reason then this jacka** has a microphone everyday. So yes, freedom of speech is near and dear to us all, but when it involves a mic, and you screw it up, screwing 19 year old GIRLS in the process, firing is not the worst thing that can happen to you.
Thanks for all the great work here and at your blog.
hey blah,
thanks for the compliments and for making it over here.
i guess i dont think that what imus said is tantamount to screwing the girls, as you say. idiots have been saying dumb crap on the radio for years, and some of it is racist and some of it is sexist, and people in general have been saying crap for years and i dont think that either of those sorts of speech is what oppresses women or minorities.
i think what stifles women and minorities far more is a lack of a higher education at good schools, not lame djs.
Tony, thank you for being the voice of reason!
I think the concern over PC speech distracts from very real issues of racism and classicism. Thanks for pointing this out.
I'm so sick of all these calls for anyone who says anything offensive to be fired. I'm sure if I listened to Imus I'd find him offensive for many reasons, which is why I exercise my right to change the station or use the off switch.
Tony,
I'm with you. The figures from UCLA and other universtities should be slap in the face to African Americans and a real call to action. Imus' comments were pathetic and stupid without a doubt. But how about some of that media spotlight on the state of higher education for minorities in general? Imus is so past his sell-by-date that, even without this incident, his days are numbered...
AMEN, brother! It's high time we all started respecting the First Amendment before we lose it. If everybody focused more on how WE REACT to what other's might say instead of trying to control what others might say, the world would be a lot better place. Humanity being what it is, we'll NEVER have ANY CONTROL over what other's might say but we'll ALWAYS have TOTAL CONTROL over how we react to it. BOYCOTT NBC and MSNBC! They have just BETRAYED OUR CONSTITUTION!
Totally agree that the UCLA numbers are more important, especially in LA.
That said, Imus will probably lose his job. Not because his right to free speech is being crossed, but because his advertisers will finally flee. They'll flee the same controversy that he's successfully courted to make his bones, but this time it's coming home to roost because he finally, after attacking many, attacked a bunch of people whose age and relative powerlessness demanded the response of an outraged public. Or maybe of Sharpton and then later the public, but whatever. He will now be a loser in the market of ideas because his ideas include a bunch of racist horseshit.
Imus has done very well, until now, by crossing the line and titillating an audience of millions who like to listen to someone debase themselves and belittle people. Now he'll lose by it. It's not a free speech issue. The government isn't stopping anyone's speech here, or even so far treating anyone to the type of decency hearings and fines we all endured over the slip of a breast. What's happening is that an a-hole, who's been privileged with a major corporate platform to broadcast his swill, is about to have that privilege deservedly removed by his bosses. And it'll happen because no sane marketer would want their products associated with someone who says these things.
This is a free speech issue. Imus was wrong. Maybe he should be fired. But if he goes, any honest person of any race should take a hard look at every hip hop radio station in America. If no action is taken by black and white America about the origins of this new usage of every sort of demeaning term towards women and black folks, then the only lesson we learn is that Imus' big mistake was that he was an old white man, not a young black rapper.
I wrote about this on my blog today as well. In the end I think we need to recognize two things 1) people will be racist if you give them a microphone or not, so maybe it's better their opinions are out in the open so racism can actually be addressed rather than swept under the rug and 2) enough with the double standards. Look at Carlos Mencia and Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle and people who have their own TV shows who are much more blatantly racist and sexist and reach a larger and less-redneck audience. Al Sharpton is a blatant racist and he gets away with it. So pick a stance on "hate speech" and stick with it.
sure helps to hear some reason.you will not hear it om cable tv(msnbc,cnn,or even fox)all you will hear is black people that are racist, it is a double standard.america has come a long way and has a long way to go..some of the educated blacks need to get a life.dont get me wrong, and dont make the mistake of reading my opinion as racist.we are a country of all races,all should be respected.imus was being funny, what he was hired for.if al and jessie would menter or try to repair whats wrong in the black community.maybe that would not put as much money in there pockits
I was in my neighborhood bar last night and this was the subject. Everyone talked about the rappers getting away with stuff that is as offensive as it can get and nothing is done about that. Again the blacks are complaining very loud but they have to fix their problems in their own communities first. The white men there said that with all the uproar about this and the fact that it is so one sided,that it made them dislike like the blacks even if they didn't feel that way before all this. Where was Al and Jesse during the huricane, I guess they couldn't make any money from that. You can't always have it just one way. Clean up the rap group and then Imus too.
"This is in the wake of last year's disgrace of only accepting 249 black freshmen..."
Why is that a "disgrace?" I mean, I also think that it's odd that there are 400 black kids in a potential class of 12,000. But I don't think that UCLA is under any obligation to inflate those numbers just so that their stats will look "better." Like you said, is this a case of UCLA discriminating, or is there a simple lack of qualified black applicants to that school? I think it's the latter, which indeed emphasizes a problem with California's public school systems, particularly in the lower-income neighborhoods. But by saying things like "...or UCLA doesn't really give a shit" you insinuate that the school has some sort of responsibility to make sure that every race is well represented within their student body. That's ludicrous. I don't care what your color is, some people deserve a shot at higher education and some don't. Education should be colorblind.
errr,
unlike you, I think the university of california, LOS ANGELES, does owe something to LOS ANGELES, and when it sees that either it's not recruiting in a diverse manner or it's not attracting a group of kids that are representative to LA, then they are part of the problem and it give the impression that they dont give a shit about their own city.
meanwhile its very easy to say that education should be colorblind, but that sort of attitude leads to stats such as african-american unemployment being double the national average. dont you think one way to quell that is to get more blacks into good colleges?
UCLA has been around long enough and has made enough money off of african americans who fill their coffers through sports, it wouldnt kill them to work closer with the local high schools to a) get local minorities on the right path to UCs b) work harder to get blacks to come to UCLA instead of other schools, and c) set up scholarships at UCLA for minorities who might not be attending because of costs.
having just 2% of new students being african american does not help make ucla better and it does not make LA better. even someone with a bad fake name can figure that one out.
You have nailed it!!!! Our focus to make real meaningful change is not by destroying Freedom of Speech! That is not the goal we need to achieve!
I personally think that if we hope to achieve true equal opprotunity. We need to pass a law that requires all opprotunities for College, Employment, Housing, Loans, or Government Benefits should be done in writing only. Only be judged on your merits, acheivements.
There is should be no way for anyone to know a persons sex, ethnicity, or religion until after the decesion to offer the opprotunity is extended. ALL people are prejudice in some way! YES even the Black Community, They have beenit may because of any issue color, religion,fat people,thin people, being too pretty, being Gay, being married, being single, being married to a someone of another race. The list goes on. Truthfully if I and my entire race get reffered to in that way by rappers, comedians, and anyone of color who thinks ignorantly too and I get no media coverage... We need to make real change not politically correct phoney remedies that just hide peoples true intentions...
"even someone with a bad fake name can figure that one out."
I'm oh so sorry that my fake name didn't live up to your standards. Geez, talk about petty...
"dont you think one way to quell that is to get more blacks into good colleges?"
Yes, I do. But I don't think that they should lower their admission standards just to meet quotas. In that situation, the only thing that is rectified is UCLA's image. Yay, they admitted 800 blacks instead of 400. That's missing the point. It solves nothing to admit unqualified applicants. Moreover, it does nothing for the majority of the black community. The change needs to happen at the K-12 level, so that more black applicants can meet UCLA's criteria for acceptance. Your points (a) - (c) are all valid, especially (c). Yes, UCLA would be better if they attempted to attract more qualified black applicants. However, they should not dilute their admission standards for the sake of accepting more applicants of a certain race. There's nothing wrong with diversity, but it should not supercede educational intrests.
dilute?
unfortunate word choice.
your theories would make sense if we were talking about an even playing field. in a city where far more AP programs are offered and are thriving in non-black schools, it is easier to get a higher GPA if you are taking more classes with weighted grades.
its also easier to get better grades and achieve more in school when you actually go to a decent school and are surrounded by a supportive environment.
plus, some people dont peak until they're older or in a different place. i saw many a "qualified" student flunk out of my UC after their first year, and many community college transfer students who were denied at first but kept with it blow away those who the university originally accepted.
unfortunately community college isnt for everyone and bad ones ruin the college experience for many who might have been fine in a decent public university. meanwhile guess where the good cc's are and guess where the bad ones are.
finally, for anyone to assume that there arent 1,000 black high seniors in LA right now who are qualified to go to UCLA next fall, is quite bold.
I use the word dilute liberally and figuratively. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. You're awfully picky for someone who doesn't capitalize or use apostrophes.
"it is easier to get a higher GPA if you are taking more classes with weighted grades."
I would argue that it would be easier to achieve a higher GPA if you weren't taking AP classes. Taking weighted classes increases your potential for a higher GPA, but those classes are also more difficult. If a B-student taking AP classes were to take core classes instead, I think that he/she would end up with a higher GPA.
"plus, some people don’t peak until they're older or in a different place."
Very true. Each person is different. This is why I'm saying that race should not be a factor. Universities should be evaluating the individual, not the race. When a school says "well you don't quite meet our standards, but we'll accept you b/c you're black" I find that very concept to be insulting.
"finally, for anyone to assume that there aren’t 1,000 black high seniors in LA right now who are qualified to go to UCLA next fall, is quite bold."
What in the world are you talking about? You fabricated that conclusion, as I never said anything like that in any of my previous posts. Personally I think it's more like 3,000, but for argument’s sake let's say that there are 1,000 qualified kids. Let's say that 100 are overqualified. UCLA is their safety school. They go on to the ivies, Stanford, Northwestern, etc. Let's say that half of the remaining kids are either (a) looking to get out of LA (b) would rather not go to UCLA b/c of personal bias or preference (c) are not going to continue their education for whatever reason. That would leave us with roughly 450 students. Not too far off from the 392 accepted this year. Point being, a qualified black student living in LA will not necessarily apply to UCLA. So what, exactly, is YOUR point?
392 were offered admission. last year 250 were offered and 100 actually enrolled. thus my 1,000 figure is challenging ucla to close to triple what they are currently doing.
Right, and I'm saying that we don't need to pressure UCLA into haphazardly accepting three times as many black students. We need to raise the 1,000 figure to 3,000 so that UCLA can accept the 1,000 qualified students who subsequently apply.
It's willfully obtuse to equate the intent and effect of offensive rap lyrics by black artists with what was broadcast by Imus. One is like Jeff Foxworthy joking about rednecks, if a bit more offensive in content, while the other is like, well, an old white a-hole getting over on a team of black college athletes with a racial slur. The rap is about stereotypes, and very negative ones in some cases, not about specific people. What Imus did was use a stereotype to attack a very specific group of people.
There wasn't even a joke involved. The only entertainment value for the audience in Imus's comments was that once again, he was saying something so offensive that any normal person wouldn't dare mutter it in public, and could expect to be beaten, shunned, or fired if they did. Your reaction upon listening to the comments would depend only on whether you wished that *you* could say such a thing publicly or that Imus would get a beat-down every time he did.
His whole schtick is based on transgression of very basic human decency. He just got his beat-down.
To quote Snoop, "First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel."
250 years of: slave trade, slavery, jim crow, can't get a job/mortgage/apartment and people want to talk about how Blacks' racism is THE problem?
Yes, it's A problem. THE problem is white racism against blacks, let's not forget that. The minute someone talking about Imus brings up Sharpton, I want to say-- do you know ANYTHING about the history of the country? Sharpton may not be a great man but what he does has minimal negative impact on our country. White racism has defined this country, let's work on that FIRST.